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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
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jstan
climber
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
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Better living through Chemistry!
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
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While this bill didn't do half of what I would have liked it to do, I think the American public will mostly come to see it as a good thing. The percentage of people who really want to get rid of other similar programs like Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security is really pretty small.
The problem is that Obama didn't do a great job of explaining, and the GOP did a really good job of slandering.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:48pm PT
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Stevep wrote: The problem is that Obama didn't do a great job of explaining, and the GOP did a really good job of slandering.
I think you are right but Obama and Pelosi handed them their asses in the end.
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apogee
climber
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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"The problem is that Obama didn't do a great job of explaining, and the GOP did a really good job of slandering."
That's a very good summary explanation. And sadly, that's usually the case in Dem vs. Rep politics.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:54pm PT
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Of course the American public approves.
We're all sick from the toxic waste in our bodies from the industrial revolution .....
That's a bit of a laugher there, Werner. You are giving people far too much credit. Most don't know or don't care what's going into their bodies. Just look at all the people buying Doritos, etc. Velveta anyone? Coke?
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jstan
climber
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Mar 23, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
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""The problem is that Obama didn't do a great job of explaining, and the GOP did a really good job of slandering.""
I think Obama's election to let Congress carry the load was conscious and well thought out.
Suppose he had led the charge from the start along the line of Hillary's heroic effort. When the opposition formed up in ranks he would not have had the horsepower, the commitment, and the determination that Pelosi and all the others had this time around. That was what carried the day.
It was dramatic, even visceral.
What is apparent here is that Obama is counting on people to rise to meet whatever challenge.
If people cannot rise, really, is there any thing for which to fight?
I'll be honest. I don't know where this came from.
Read it again. The man is thinking three moves ahead.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 23, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
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The % that want to get rid of the programs is small because they are expecting something for nothing, just like the citizens of BK Greece. We're heading down that path.
According to Fatty, With a population of 33 million, Canada is too small to be able to compare their situation with ours in terms of health care systems, yet Greece, with a population or 11 million, is a perfect example of where we are headed.
Fatty, you are nuts.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 23, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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Well Fatty, you force me to pay for your wars, Just how many have you called for?, so I guess I will force you to pay for my social programs.
Social programs, nor the military, are in and of themselves evil. How they are managed can make them such. I believe that it is possible to do both well, but not likely until more people get better discernment. Cheney is a nice guy??? Yikes.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 23, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
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Fatty, at one point the Democrates were stuck with the notion that we could spend anything we wanted to on social programs and that America would be able to absorb them. Most of us learned our lesson and its why we started pushing for balanced budgets with Clinton.
Republicans now face a similar type situation. Yall have been ranting for so long that taxes are evil, that you ended up lowering taxes while declaring war. You have people saying, "no government run healthcare, but don't stop my medicare". Hopefully some day you will learn your lesson. To run a successful country, we need to tax people. It is balanced taxation and balanced spending that works.
So we need some social programs and some military and police and fire. These are all social programs. Saying that socialism is evil is just wrong and is why I have lost so much respect for Republicans.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 23, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
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"Social programs, nor the military, are in and of themselves evil. How they are managed can make them such. I believe that it is possible to do both well, but not likely until more people get better discernment."
John's comment succinctly and directly addresses the reality. A huge reality.
I think we all are struggling to find that better discernment....
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 23, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
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Congratulations to John E on having a letter to the editor about this published in the Wall Street Journal! (Sadly, it doesn't seem to be in their on-line edition.) A rare accomplishment. Maybe he'll post it here in the form that they published it, so we can all appreciate it.
A letter in the WSJ is definitely a step or two up from SuperTopo.
(He mentioned it about 200 posts back, but I didn't get a chance to note it until now.)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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I'm surprised you take that position and at the same time advocate for a health care reform law which requires all new policies to cover preventive care for free. After all why should a healthy active person like yourself who needs very little in the way of preventive medicine have to carry the "preventive" costs for the millions of inactive couch potatoes who are fat on McDonalds?
The answer is that it makes the citizens of our country more healthy and stronger, so it coincidentally makes our country more healthy and stronger. Your side consistantly works to get out of the country everything it can, for personal benefit, but also ignores those things that will make the country better. Why do you hate America?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
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Obama spent 2009 trying to be bipartisan while the RNC decided they wanted to play impossible to get, making it a sad (though hilarious) situation. 2010 Obama came out swinging with forceful leadership and still maintained a positive tone. I hope 2010 Obama sticks around for the next 6 years.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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$5000 Obama wipes the floor with ANY Republican's ass in 2012.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:24pm PT
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One of Fatty's primary gripes with the new legislation is that we will follow the path of Greece and other European nations in carrying a deficit that's unsustainable. It seems as if two ways to address that issue are to raise taxes or reduce the size of government. However, the Republican party seems to have problems with both of these concepts.
Newt Gingrich was on the Daily Show a while back and confirmed both of these points: http://www.commondreams.org/video/2010/02/10.
At 4:38 Gingrich admits that the federal government grew under Reagan.
At 5:10 Gingrich admits that he'd rather have a deficit than increase taxes.
At some point the right needs to stop talking policy and actually follow its own lead.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:29pm PT
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$5000 Obama wipes the floor with ANY Republican's ass in 2012.
Can I renege, like Dr. F, if I lose???
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
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Obama spent 2009 trying to be bipartisan
What, because he said so???? This is like Soviet Pravda. Just because he said so, it was so? Kinda like Nancy Pelosi saying that, like Medicare and Social Security, she's doing the work of the people. What???? Those programs are failures!
We got a big problem on our hands.....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 23, 2010 - 08:34pm PT
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Blue, I had nothing to do with that other than to confirm your point.
Sorry buddy, with me it is real money.
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