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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 17, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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One problem with you rivet hanger is that you seem to see evidence where there really is no evidence.
Having access to internet is not the same thing as reading everything posting on the internet, not even the same thing as looking if there are any new comments on his own webpage.
Youtube videos showing cables sticking out of holes do not prove that the depth of the holes is not enough to almost fit a whole angle.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 17, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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Ok Raymond, once I drilled a 1 meter deep hole on granite to place a alumihead, it makes full sense.
Come on, man. At least it reinforce the No-American climber prejudice theory...
And yes, someone who creates an ex-profeso web page months ago to discredit the route it's obvious that do not have any system of alarm when new posts on your own webside. All post are answered 2 days after in the worst cases, but Pelut one's from 4th August on...
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Oct 17, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
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KITTEN FIGHT!
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 17, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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Ok Raymond, once I drilled a 1 meter deep hole on granite to place a alumihead, it makes full sense.
Sorry, but I do not know much about the practice of drilled copperheads so I do not know why he drilled that deep. Nice exaggeration though. That did your argument so much better.
Come on, man. At least it reinforce the No-American climber prejudice...
Why is Pelut quite about the drilling and the depth of the holes?
And yes, someone who creates an ex-profeso web page months ago to discredit the route it's obvious that do not have any system of alarm when new posts on your own webside...
I don't know if that is obvious or not.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 17, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
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why does Pelut need this other guy to defend him, where is he?
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Oct 17, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
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I miss the ponies
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 17, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
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he also is weak sauce because drills the holes deeper to place angles!
why should I/we belive Jensen's report? He was out there alone...
I don't see I've called you liar.
So, you don't see where you're calling me a liar? Hmm... strange. Let me clear it up for you.
I didn't drill any holes deeper. I've said that before. So, when you say that I did, you call me a liar.
My pictures show what PELUT did on the route, and I didn't change anything to make things look worse. My being alone up there has nothing to do with this because... wait for it... I'm not lying about what I found.
The picture you show as "proof" about the hook anchor demonstrates nothing of substance. As I said before, no picture shows the LOWER placement, the one below the hook anchor, the one that is another DEEP hole. That picture you recently posted is no exception. The gloved hand and helmet obscure the part of the rock where that placement is. And no picture I've seen shows what that LOWER placement is.
As I've said before, I don't know what Pelut put in those holes. What I do KNOW, however, is that they were drilled out deep enough to take baby angles almost to the eye before I got there.
But, again, as I've said ad nauseum, ALL of this talk about particular placements misses the big point. And I wouldn't even be having this discussion if only a few placements here and there were at issue.
THE issue here is NOT about this or that particular placement. THE issue is that Pelut drilled a bashie ladder for about 1000 feet up the side of the Titan. There was no "line" there. And if you think that the 35-foot seam at the start of the first pitch is sufficient to demonstrate a "line," then you are even more out of touch with climbing reality than you already seem to demonstrate that you are.
For the last time... I reported and documented exactly what I found on the route. I didn't lie about it in the slightest, and I didn't change anything about what PELUT did on the FA.
Furthermore, I didn't go up there to "discredit the route," as you keep insisting. My blog was originally for friends and family who contributed money to help me pay for the ascent. (If that's comparable to ongoing corporate sponsorship, then smite me!) Until I started this thread on the Taco, nobody but friends and family had been to the blog.
And the blog said nothing about discrediting the ROUTE. The most negative thing I had to say before the SA was that I doubted the RATING! I was pretty confident that the A6+ rating was a JOKE, because I simply don't believe in A6, must less A6+. And, RH, even YOU must admit that Pelut was IGNORANT about Intifada when he did it. So, yes, I did believe that I was going to down-rate the route.
But, all that said, I also believed that the route would be hard and a real test. So, I was NOT about going up to "discredit the route." I thought that the ROUTE might well be the real-deal, even if it was over-rated.
It wasn't until I was well into the first pitch and was seeing Pelut's tactics that I was angered and started THIS thread, starting the public discrediting of the ROUTE! So, be clear about this... I didn't start my blog or the route with ANY intention of "discrediting the route." My discrediting of the route started ONLY after I was ON the pile and saw what Pelut had done. And, even THEN, I became determined to finish the thing to see ALL the way up if there was ANYTHING worthy on the heap. I wanted to report on it completely and fairly. I have done exactly that.
So, don't try to float this as me doing the SA with the predetermination of discrediting the route, and then screwing the route up and lying about it TO discredit it. Not the slightest aspect of that theory has any merit.
If you keep floating that theory now, you ARE calling me a liar, and there's no dancing your way around that. So, DECIDE! Either I'm lying or I'm not. If I'm not, then Pelut totally and completely botched this ascent. And if you say that I AM lying about ANY of what I'm reporting, then, again, you need to get Stateside and have the huevos to tell me that to my face.
And, btw, I had exactly ZERO duty to meet with Pelut. The posts in which you say he was asking for a meeting were not clear to me. He wrote in Spanish, and Google translate does a terrible job of it! The impression I got from his few posts was that he'd like to sit down for a drink sometime. There was no timeline suggested and no sense of urgency at all. I honestly had no idea that he wanted to meet with me RIGHT THEN.
If there was that much urgency, and he was right there in Moab for a month, then the duty was on HIM to meet with me, not the other way around. I was there. He knew where to find me! I owed him NOTHING, and nothing he would have said to me at that time would have had the slightest effect on what I reported about the route. So, you are, yet again, throwing out a dead red herring. The most you can say is that I was "discourteous." Oh well. If so, it wasn't intentional. And, even if I was, big deal. It changes nothing about the material facts of the FA.
RH, I'm literally starting to think that you are not Pelut's friend but are instead his enemy. Everything you are writing seems DESIGNED to subtly make Pelut look worse and worse. If your comments and arguments are what count as a "defense" of Pelut, then Pelut doesn't need ANY enemies with "friends" like you!
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 17, 2012 - 02:47pm PT
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Well, since my point of view, both pics are eloquent enough, and it's clear that you made the holes deeper to place the angles, at least the one above the the hook anchor as seen on your own photo...
If at this objective fact seen on both photos, the fact that you directly bolted the route is added (I guess that first you put the rivet/bolt and then you hang on it, a thing that obviously change the risk, although only you know this...), your credibility is seriously in doubt since a rational point of view. But as everybody in this thred seems that won't never admit this (prejudice against non-american aid climbers), I have to repeat it ad nauseum... Well, as supertopo is followed worldwide, at least your inexactitudes won't remain as a complete truth.
And by the way, Pelut at least has had the bollocks to upload his own photos about your havoc of the route, something that is quite clear that I didn't do last summer...
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 17, 2012 - 02:59pm PT
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But as everybody in this thred seems that won't never admit this (prejudice against non-american aid climbers), I have to repeat it ad nauseum... Well, as supertopo is followed worldwide, at least your inexactitudes won't stay as a complete truth.
Why is it that you are the only non american that defend Pelut here on supertopo if most of them agree with your view?
I still have a very hard time understanding how the issue can be about prejudice when Pelut clearly put up the route in very bad style.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 17, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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Hey, I was weak as an aid climber, ok make that climber, but at least I top-stepped!
"If the piece yer standin' on ain't at yer knees then ya better have a gud excuse."
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Oct 17, 2012 - 05:35pm PT
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Oct 17, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
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RH,
How good of head did Pelut give to make you so stoked on him raping the Titan?
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Oct 17, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
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RH,
How good of head did Pelut give to make you so stoked on him raping the Titan?
Now bringmedeath, be nice. You know full well that RH has said that he doesn't always understand all of our slang terms.
I'll translate for you RH
Bringmedeath asked how good Pelut was at giving you oral sex in order to make you so focused on defending his actions of forcing himself up a route that the Titan did not consent to.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 17, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
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Ah yes...the Compressor Route of the Fisher Towers.
Heh... not quite. I'm sure that Maestri got better than 24 inches between drilled placements. BTW, I was never clear from your report. Did Pelut add holes to your route?
RH: Now you can't deny that you are calling me a liar. You have no huevos, saying that from across the sea. But, no problem. At this point you've succeeded in adding the final, bottom of the barrel level of discredit to the whole sordid affair. When the best you can say to "defend" this crap is that I lied, well, I doubt you're gonna find that gets much traction in the international community. Good luck with that.
If Pelut has "friends" like you, he doesn't need enemies.
'Nuff said.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 02:27am PT
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Indeed, and well stated.
IMO Richard, at this point the facts of the matter are crystal clear to anyone who matters and has been paying attention.
We've also successfully hit the 500 post target set up earlier in the thread.
I'd say we can call it a day until a third party cleans it all up. Meanwhile...
But first, below this post we present a bunch more drivel from Rivet Hangar.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 03:36am PT
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Yeah Richy, according to Crunch pics, you also put rivets/bolts every 24 inches, and although putting eurobashies as you call them is not a good style, everybody can understand that the risk is not exactly the same...
Maestri Route's Tower is a good definition of what you did, or exactly a rivet/bolt ladder. This picture is yours, and it doesn't seem that you exactly went to the last step of the aider to place them... 24 inches?
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 18, 2012 - 03:43am PT
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And to others asking for morbid fascination, thank you for translation and the answer is: the same kind of oral sex that your respective mothers used to practice in every corner of their native town before meeting your alcholohic daddy, but with a big difference, I never swallow the load as they always did... ;-)
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 18, 2012 - 03:48am PT
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This picture is yours, and it doesn't seem that you exactly went to the last step of the aider to place them... 24 inches?
I would suggest that you at least show a pic of one of Richards rivets if you want to make an argument about how high he steps when placing a rivet :)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 18, 2012 - 03:50am PT
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RH, at this point you're obviously so far gone that it has become quite entertaining (in a sort of fascinated-horror sort of way).
Your first pic actually shows three of Pelut's holes in the same space as two of mine. The third hole is between the two really obvious ones, in a more crumbly area of rock. So, that pic actually MAKES my very point! What a laugh!
And the second pic is showing two of Pelut's "mini-bolts," not mine at all. Also, that's an overhanging area, where placements would naturally be closer together anyway, so I wouldn't even bash on Pelut if this were the only example of his hole-distance. Sadly, this is FAR from being the only example.
Keep posting! You are just showing yourself to be more and more Pelut's ENEMY, not his friend. The climbing community is just getting more and more evidence about WHAT an utter botch the FA was, as well as seeing the sorts of wild, outrageous "arguments" you must resort to for a "defense" of the pile.
Keep it coming. LOL
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 18, 2012 - 03:59am PT
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Let's look at your supplied pic a bit more closely, RH. We actually see that Pelut drilled three holes in a shorter span than I drilled two. And, unlike particularly that middle blow-out, what I did is sustainable drilling. If the route lasts, before too many years pass the majority of Pelut's blown-out holes will become obscured by erosion and mud... Good-bye botch job!
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