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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Romans 4:7-8, “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
That pretty much covers all of us! All fall short of the glory of God, and He offers us redemption through Jesus the ONLY ONE without sin!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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WOW!!!
Nice pic two pages back, BTW.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Gobee!
Thanks for the appropriate Scripture verses!
About the "nice pic two pages back" that is an awesome shot! And the one before it that accompanies it! Looks like you shot a picture of the bivy, early morning, with snowfall during the night.
Looks like you were prepared. Where was it? Was it an epic??
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
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The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
 Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)
For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything "chosen" about them.
Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)
t was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Here is the difference betwixt the poet and the mystic, that the last nails a symbol to one sense, which was a true sense for a moment, but soon becomes old and false. For all symbols are fluxional; all language is vehicular and transitive, and is good, as ferries and horses are, for conveyance, not as farms and houses are, for homestead. Mysticism consists in the mistake of an accidental and individual symbol for an universal one.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Norton- "If something is in me that can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Like I have stated before, this is exactly what God is stating in Romans!
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Nature shows us a God of might, intelligence, and intricate detail; a God of order and beauty, a God who controls powerful forces. That is general revelation. He reveals His divine nature and personal qualities through creation, even though creations testimony has been distorted by the fall.
Not only are divine attributes seen in humanity, but they can be seen in the material universe as well! Nature itself speaks eloquently of its Creator. From the intricate design of the human cell to the majestic strength of the great mountain ranges of the world, to the universe which is unfolding above us.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork." Psalm 19:1
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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No, Dr F, nobody can, or does, read those.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nature shows us a God of might, intelligence, and intricate detail; a God of order and beauty, a God who controls powerful forces.
Nature shows a lot of things of wonder, like protein folding, but shows nothing of god. I do believe you and others project god onto nature, however, and think you aren't giving nature her due.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
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The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Trip, You know what Christians believe and what Christ preached..."Faith, Hope, Love, and the greatest of these is Love. Yet you continue to quote from the Old Testament!
Christ initiated a New Covenant with mankind! "Therefor be imitators of God as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us."
Go ahead quote the Old Testament laws...continue to Hate. "and you will be hated by all because of My name." Luke 21:17
Don't the 10 Commandments come from the Old Testament? Exactly which parts of the OT are we supposed to toss?
Even Jesus claimed he wasn't against the laws and prophets of the OT 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
I don't think you should even be consorting on this forum with unbelievers - 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
I know, I'm a hater and I just don't get it. I'm with the antichrist according to the NT - 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Oh well.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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The answers to any questions of how, what, when, where, etc., do not require a god--though many will say that a god did this or that. We don't know all the answers, but we learn more everyday, and no process or discovery has ever shown the need for divine intervention.
The reason people believe in god is because they can't accept that "why are we here?" is a meaningless question with no answer; to their why questions they desperately need the answer "god has a plan."
So if god is the why for them then it must follow that it is also the ultimate answer to all the how, what, when, where, etc., questions as well, but it is all a house of cards built upon a fear. So they attack evolution and anything else that distances the god they believe in from the how, what, when, where, etc., because it makes their god seem less and less personal and perhaps less likely to have a plan for them.
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WBraun
climber
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Mental gymnastics, mental speculations and nihilism.
You can do better than that, Wanda
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Why does the universe have the values that it does? A very wide and diverse set of very precise values.
Lee Smolin, the physicist speaks of God (in a sense)as sitting at a big desk with one hundred diles. And each dile reflects one of the forces or values of the universe. There is the mass of the electron, the mass of the proton, the gravitational force, the electromagnetic force, the electroweak force, and so on and so on.
And the question is, why are those numbers set at exactly where they are? What if we were to go in and fool with the diles a little bit, change them a little bit? The scientist who asked this question came up with a very startling conclusion.
Not if you fooled with the diles 50%, or 20%, or even 1%. Steven Hawkins says with his brief history of the "Expansion of the Universe", that if you touch one of the diles(the expansion rate of the universe)and move it one part in a hundred thousand million million, we would have no Universe, no life!!
In other words constants and the values of the Universe seem to be fine tuned for...US!!! There is no Darwinian explanation for this.
Awcomes(sp)Razor, the logic of simplicity, would suggest that a Creator designed them that way. Is it even reasonable to suggest that the Universe and all its laws created themselves?
Modern science has spent the last 500 years excavating the intelligence built into the laws of nature. We live aparently in a rational universe that reflects extremely complicated laws. Keplers Laws of planetary motion, Newton's inverse square Law, Einstein E=MC2 and so on.
My question is, if our most brilliant scientist have spent a life time trying to decode intelligence out of nature, who put it there? Or how did it get there? Where did this intelligence come from? What is its explanation? What is your account for it, why does nature obey laws in the first place?
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Trip wrote, In other words constants and the values of the Universe seem to be fine tuned for...US!!! There is no Darwinian explanation for this.
And there wouldn't be. Biologic evolution is concerned with the diversity of life on earth, not the origin or values of the Universe.
Gotta love the Anthropic principle. Another bit of wishingful thinking. Sir Roger Penrose, the mathematical physicist, once said, "it tends to be invoked by theorists whenever they do not have a good enough theory to explain the observed facts." Stephen Jay Gould, Michael Shermer and others claim that the Anthropic Principle seems to reverse known causes and effects. Gould compared the claim that the universe is fine-tuned for the benefit of our kind of life to saying that sausages were made long and narrow so that they could fit into modern hotdog buns, or saying that ships had been invented to house barnacles. These critics cite the vast physical, fossil, genetic, and other biological evidence consistent with life having been fine-tuned through natural selection to adapt to the physical and geophysical environment in which life exists. Life appears to have adapted to physics, and not vice versa." (Wikipedia)
This is a type of Puddle Thinking...
Puddle thinking is an analogy coined by Douglas Adams to satirise the anthropic principle.[1][2] As quoted in Richard Dawkins' eulogy for Douglas Adams:
. . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be all right, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.
Awcomes(sp)Razor, the logic of simplicity, would suggest that a Creator designed them that way.
Occam's razor would suggest the opposite. It is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one. Why add a creator to our observations?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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bc!
Jesus Christ gave us a new law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Kinda rules out the stoning laws eh??
5:17 "I come to fulfill".
He is the only one who could fulfill the law, He lived a sinless life!!
And Jesus stated that if you even look at a woman with lust, your guilty of adultry. Pretty difficult not to do without Christ ruling your life...eh?
And if you even get angry at another person, you are guilty of murder.
Yep...spirit of the Antichrist. That's what your espousing. "There is no God" Satan has you right in his pocket.
Another thing Antichrist/Satan hates...me here, on this forum.
Nice try bc. You are discernible.
But I do enjoy your company. Questions.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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So we can throw out Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and some of the rest, whatever doesn't fall into the candy-coated version of the Jesus story? Just pretend they never happened, huh?
"To every sadistic and bigoted moral code there is a season, and a time for every atrocity under heaven?"
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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The religious mystic is the ultimate nihilist in his declaration that all who do not believe as he does are cursed, trapped or dead.
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Exactly cintune. How about it Trip, Gobee, anyone? What part of the OT is out and what is in?
And I'm not certain Jesus is all goodness and light...
"One of the things that is overlooked by many Christians is that there is a wrathful Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus comes out and condemns whole towns to fates worse than Sodom and Gomorrah for not liking his preaching(Matthew 11:21-24). You can find Jesus in some very foul moods." -- Sam Harris (I know, another puppet of the antichrist!)
(By the way I'm not a "hater", I'm actually rather tolerate of other viewpoints. One of my best climbing buddies is a xtian fundy. I've been called a "caveman" and some other name on this thread I can't remember, and now you've called me "discernible". Should I be offended?)
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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cintune!
Deuteronomy 6:13 "You shall fear only the Lord your God, worship Him and swear by His name." My favorite Bible verse!!
All I said is what the New Testement is. Jesus Christ came with a New Covenant, He died once and for all...no more yearly sacrifices etc. And He added a new commandment "you shall love your neighbor as yourself".
Love.
And suddenly bc demanding me unfit to... and I am being accused of throwing out the Old Testament?? I said nothing of the such.
Talking about jumping to conclusions.
The Anti-christ is alive and well.
I think it was this scripture that struck a nerve "and you will be hated by all because of My name."
I'm us to it...after 50+ yrs as a Christian.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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bc- "discernible"
I was referring to the Antichrist spirit, it is easily discernible.
I could have said perceptible.
Doesn't mean your a bad/evil person! Just duped into believing his lie.
I'm sure there are things that are discernible/perceptible about me. For instance I tend to procrastinate, I'm not very organised/slob, I'm a dirt-bag. Have a tendency to be cynical etc. etc.
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