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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 09:45am PT
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GLillegard,
there is a difference between discussing how to stop "mass" shootings, and how to reduce deaths by guns.
People are less afraid of individual shootings, because we have some level of control over who we hang out with. This is why mass shootings create more fear. We can't control the large groups of people we hang out with, such as when we send our children to school. This is why there is a difference between single killings, which have many more deaths, and mass shootings.
Perhaps if we could get gun owners to understand this, then that might reduce their fear that "all liberals" want to take away all guns. this simply isn't true. Some certainly do, but the vast majority don't.
If we could get to that point, then perhaps we could discuss making it more difficult for people to own semi auto rifles and handguns. Making those more difficult for the average person to get would reduce the number of deaths caused by those intent on mass shootings. Of course it would not stop overall shootings, and it likely wouldn't do much to stop the number of mass shootings, but it would help reduce the number of people killed during these shootings.
The next thing to understand is that this problem has deep roots. It will not be fully stopped until every root is dug out. That would be impossible in humans current state of consciousness. So baby steps need to be discovered.
I have less problem with Jody's plan to arm some school staff then I used to. It is likely something we are going to have to do until we find other ways to wake people up to the roots of violence and people find the will to make the changes that are necessary. Some people certainly have done the inner work, they don't carry guns. They depend on their own good karma and to some extent those who are paid by our society to carry guns. Everyone has different levels of what they depend on. The key is finding ways to balance all of those needs.
Contrary to what some say, I have no desire to take away all guns.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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Actually it is a boy and I know he is not immune. But if there were armed adults at that school to protect him I would feel much better about things.
Happie, what is your suggestion to get rid of ALL these "horrible weapons"?
All 300+ million of them.
I mixed up you and fattrad when I was thinking of your child, and didn't realize until after I went offline.
I don't suggest we DO get rid of "All." I never HAVE given any indication I thought that way. Nor have the VAST majority of people who are begging for regulation.
I also don't think there IS a "push a button/make a law quick fix." And I also don't have the audacity to think I have the resources/knowledge/education/experience to suggest "here's the solution." That people use that excuse "What's YOUR suggestion to fix" as a way to support maintaining the status quo, disgusts me. It is such a low level debate tactic, it just tells me I am not dealing with a high level thinker. Unfortunately, that level of debate is a popular strategy among internet forums.
If I had my guesses as to what's going on with this increase, I would say it is a combination of things, not necessarily in the order I write:
 polarization within politics and the intentional feeding of propaganda intended to reinforce our "differences"
desensitization of death, with the video games that focus on decimating a target that is a sentient being. Now, there has always been Cowboys/Indians and Cops/Robbers. I believe it may be the quick action inherent with the video screen that might be altering our ability to have patience. Also, I notice that the "killers" in these video games are often designed as rogue bad-guy/gal types. A generation ago, we may have thought the "bad guy" had some level of debonair and daring, but we knew he wasn't gong to prevail in the end.
The reflexing prescribing of drugs to manage behavior conditions. We now KNOW, beyond a doubt, that docs prescribing narcotics for pain led to the opioid epidemic. It seems to me we ought to be more carefully researching and monitoring the longer term effects on all the ADD/ADHD/Social Anxiety etc drugs. YES, they can benefit people. But they can also be extremely dangerous. And, without monitoring, a person on them is unable to recognize issues that may be arriving. We're always the last to know, when it comes to something going off within our selves.
Chemical Pesticide exposures for the last several decades. Some of these chemicals are used to fry the nervous systems of insects, and decimate the life force within non-sentient beings(weeds). I think it would be ludicrous to not expect we are being negatively affected by the long term exposures to these elements. We KNOW how bad Asbestos was for people....why would we think for a minute that our corporatists have learned any sort of lesson about caution when it comes to exposing populations? Their solution? Call it a "frivolous lawsuit" when someone claims illness due to exposure, and lobby against the class action suits that make the lawyers rich. Instead - why not lobby to cap the percentage the attorneys GET, IF the "lawyers benefitting" is the reason they don't think these suits are fair....?
Gun Porn, with the NRA and the gun markets pimping - Like cigs were targeted to "be cool," the gun ads and videos do the same. Maybe.....maybe gun ads should have some regulation as to what out to be avoided.
Arms Manufacturing as as Economic Stimulus - almost certainly, at the end of the day, the underlying pin to this grenade
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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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LOCK THE DOORS TO THE SCHOOL ONCE STUDENTS ARRIVE???...
most schools aren't completely fenced, meaning most anyone can sneak on campus. In the florida shooting the guy pulled the fire alarm to get kids out of their classrooms.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 18, 2018 - 10:40am PT
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Sandy Hook school was locked.
Yer gonna have to bullet proof every exterior window.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 18, 2018 - 10:44am PT
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Shot thru a window, either on the door or nearby.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Feb 18, 2018 - 11:08am PT
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With some 350 million people and 300 million guns in the US shouldn't there be multiple mass shootings every day?
Looks like we are just ramping up, what will it be like in 10 yrs?
"That is the price we pay for living in a free society" - code for just deal with it personally
"criminals don't bother to read or follow laws", so don't bother passing any new laws
"enforce the laws already on the books" - been trying that, does not seem to work, at all
"how about a Federal law stopping the sale of all military grade assault weapons?"
oh come on, more big government intruding into the lives of American citizens, no way
so back to, "our thoughts and prayers go out", rinse and repeat
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 18, 2018 - 11:14am PT
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Locker, don’t you need to go climbing today?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 18, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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Right you are. A pity that the operation I had three months ago so I could get out more was all phukked up, but thanks for asking.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Feb 18, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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Can we talk?
Seriously?
There IS a definitive solution to military grade assault weapons used to slaughter.
A Federal law banning the immediate sale, turning in and destruction of them.
HA HA
Will that work? Of course it will and we all know it, can't get your hands on one can't use it.
Norway did it, Australia did it, Canada and England, can't buy em, can't own em.
Here comes the outcry, well too bad honey boo boo, at some point the US will, maybe in 20,50,100 years, and that will be the end of 8 yr olds screaming and dying at Sandy Hook.
Don't even try to counter with well then we ought to ban knives and bats, sorry too weak
drastic times call for drastic measures throughout human history
many more years of thoughts and prayers going out first, then and only then when the American people get so damn mad they make sure to elect politicians who will pass those laws
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 18, 2018 - 11:59am PT
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The Blackwater gospel - a part of the American system. What we can't see in this film is that some more or less hidden few Americans are thriving on the individualized fear (politicians, religious leaders, the NRA, weapon sellers, lawyers and so on) ...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Neither can we see the media. The media, free speech and some American institutions can still save America, but are under attack from the current POTUS (who shares much with the priest in this gospel - bad Maxicans, sh#t countries and so on) and his followers.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
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I'm not surprised...
"It ain't gonna me..." aka "Buy more weapons..."
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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Paul Ryan is a coward and designated fluffer to the NRA. Nothing going to happen.
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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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Are you guaranteeing that ALL will be turned in and that bad guys will turn theirs in also?
Don't need to guarantee ALL.. just need to get most off the streets, thus making them harder to get. We are talking about "reducing".. not necessarily completely eliminating. That would probably be an impossible goal.
A country that believed in getting them off the street would get them off the street. The problem is that people like you don't want them off the street. Until the vast majority of Americans want them off the street, then they will continue to be a problem. Semi auto rifles with the ability to have high capacity magazines are what I am talking about.
Well regulated..
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
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Jody wondered
Two questions:
What is a military grade assault weapon?
Are you guaranteeing that ALL will be turned in and that bad guys will turn theirs in also?
Jody, you seriously do not know the definition of a military grade assault weapon, really?
hint, there is such thing as an internet search, try it, I am not going to educate you
secondly, did I say that I personally would "guarantee" that bad guys would turn them in?
Grow up Jody, you have offered nothing as a solution, I have offered the ultimate solution
the only final solution, again, is to destroy every AR15 type in the US except for law enforcement
does not matter how long it takes, 100 years, and yes root em out by force if necessary
only then will the USA join other nations in greatly mitigating , not "end", civilian slaughter
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
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Metal rusts. People grow old. Attitudes change. I own guns, love shooting them. Ban sales of new firearms to anyone military or public safety. Eventually, all those old guns will be revered in their rarity. They will be usable, and expensive. With 300m firearms here in the US, that’s almost enough for everyone to own one. The shitty kids in class ruined it for everyone, and now guns need to be treated legally in a different manner. Time passes, and some sort of change needs to happen. Ban them, and give exceptions, all monitored and regulated. People will die of old age, and the fascination with guns in out great nation will calm down. If we don’t begin to enact a slow change now, then when will we?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
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You're already doing your best, Jody, supporting that kind of government...
What's happening with the American drugs... The worst drug dealers in present America is not out on the street. It's family physicians and parents...
Who's getting rich because of all these drug deaths?
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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
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yep Malmute. its gonna be a long haul.
Jody.. you pretty much describe the military. I don't need you or others to have a gun to keep me safe from the government. I do need you to pay attention, to care about someone other they yourself, and try to be informed.
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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
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you know that he means semi auto rifles that have the capacity to be fitted with high capacity magazines. So you are just being argumentative.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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Jody, what’s a standard magazine size for an AR style rifle? In my opinion, any magazine over 15 rounds should be illegal. If you’re hunting and you take more than three shots, you suck at hunting. If you’re at the range, reloading shouldn’t be an issue, as you’re presumably hanging with your friends.
I say keep it at some standard, 9-12 feels right, and ban the rest. Black market, yeah yeah, dumb argument that holds no water.
Begin the process now for our grandkids sakes.
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John M
climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
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( Edit: Jody )
If you genuinely believed that he was strictly talking about military grade weapons, and you knew that few civilians owned them. Then why would you argue with him about banning civilians from owning them since few if any owned them, unless of course you wanted to be argumentative.
the truth is that you know he is talking about semi auto rifles that have the capacity to have high capacity magazines, and you don't want those banned to civilians.
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