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John M
climber
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I found the article Zbrown posted. I don't' believe he is talking about incidents for an entire year. I believe he was talking about incidents in January of 2114, verses incidents in January of 2013. This year was so dry that there were fires when normally there aren't fires.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Apr/03/laird-water-drought-california/
I still haven't figured out how a fire is determined to be a Cal fire incident, or some other organization. There are fires that Cal Fire responded to that are and aren't Cal Fires, including fires that burned on both Cal Fire controlled land and on national forest or BLM land.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2014 - 07:25am PT
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OFF TOPIC
California is rotten
Bluey,
Probably, but you will find lobbying and corruption in every state and country in the world. Just look at some of the stuff that has gone down here in Ireland, especially if Irish billionaire (who made his fortune via a brown envelope) Denis O'Brien is involved. The rich just keep getting richer and the poor just keep getting poorer (I include middle income in the latter group), usually with the help of corrupt officials.
In Transparency International's 2013 Corruption Perceptions Index, out of 177 countries the US came in at 74/100 on the index, ranked 19 (tied with Uruguay), Ireland came in at 21, and Canada tied at 9 with Australia. Denmark and New Zealand were tied at number 1 for being the cleanest of the 177.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Now back to playing Marco Polo, except there is no water in the pool.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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I found the article Zbrown posted. I don't' believe he is talking about incidents for an entire year. I believe he was talking about incidents in January of 2114, verses incidents in January of 2013. This year was so dry that there were fires when normally there aren't fires.
I assume that you mean 2014, not 2114, but your interpretation seems to say then that there were 473 in January of this year and zero in the prior year, which is even worse.
Mr. Laird's statement is not very clear, but that's why the chief is so important to the ST. He can figure out anything. Next time I'll read the article instead of relying on hearsay, or of course, I could just wait until tc reads, interprets and posts it.
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John M
climber
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I assume that you mean 2014, not 2114,
Exactly.. I meant 2014
a year ago January we had zero fires of any substance that Cal Fire had to deal with. This year it was 473.
This is the quote I was working off of. I believe that He is talking about this years fires during January, versus last years fires during January. Normally things are too wet in January to have wild land fires. This year it was very dry.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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I'm anxiously (well not really) awaiting tc's interpretation of this data. Just more arsonists around when there is a drought that only exists in some folks' minds?
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John M
climber
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zbrown.
I think that use of the word drought is what the Chief is hung up on. His contention is that if the normal for this place is more drought like then is accepted, then what we are currently going through is normal, and thus not a drought, since by definition a drought is abnormally lower precipitation. Either way, whether we call it a drought or normal, it means less water and that is what we have to contend with.
The problem with the Chiefs point is that he seems to think that we will go back to wet, so why get up in arms. But if what he says is true that the normal is drier, then by average we should stay drier and not necessarily go back to a wetter period.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Looking at the rainfall-by-year graph posted earlier, it seems if California didn't have dry years periodically, something would be out of whack.
Everything in California runs on a boom-bust cycle.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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For the majority of the time the universe has been around, there has been no Solar System, no Earth, North America, no Sierra Nevada, no California, and certainly no climate in California. Therefore, the very existence of a climate here is abnormal. The only NORM for this location in the universe is apparently cosmic dust at ~3K.
I think I get what the chuff is going for here... complete avoidance of any societal responsibility through feigned knowledge of how the world works. By latching onto the tidbits of science that support his preferred state of apathy, while simultaneously disparaging the scientific framework that provided those tidbits, he is able to dupe himself into believing he has the inside scoop on what is really happening. He has apparently convinced himself that he is the only one who understands the complexity of the world around him... and nobody, not even the scientists who provided him with the long-term analysis of climate, can comprehend what he himself knows to be true. Since he is the only one who understands the world around him, and he sees no way to tackle the water shortage problem, there isn't a problem and there really is nothing anyone can do about it.
Fantastic!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Oh come on chuff... we all know you can't trust peer reviewed literature... especially when it is related to climate change. The only thing we can trust is YOUR authoritative gut feeling. Maybe state leaders just need a retired Navy guy to tell them which peer reviewed studies to take seriously and which ones are part of a vast global conspiracy?
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John M
climber
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thanks for the explanation Chief. It makes sense to me. I haven't seen the studies, but I keep hearing about it.
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John M
climber
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Wes, It depends on which government you mean. Local government versus state versus feds. Plus they may believe something, but haven't yet found the will to face it or know how to deal with it.
For instance, I would bet most people, including most people in the federal government believe that our tax code is messed up. But who has the will to deal with it. So things keep rolling along the way that they are. Messed up. The government may be starting to realize that we may have to deal with lower amounts of water, but do they have the will to do something about it, or the full realization of what this means? I don't know. Since I am new to this belief, I don't have an opinion. I haven't read up to see who believes what. The Chief talks about a study. I don't know if he means one study or what. I find that few things get changed on just one study. Especially something as large and complicated as California water supply.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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The CA government is fully aware of the water situation. Politricks get in the way of resolving it... mostly big ag$. Chuffhole only confuses the situation by insisting the scientific framework that produced the "study" he relies on to support his view is the same one he vigorously refutes the second it doesn't support his preconceptions. It is ironic that he fully endorses the paleoclimate research, which is more inferential than the anthropogenic climate change research, which he desperately tries to refute.
That the local and state leadership needs to get off their asses and take these studies seriously and prepare for what the NORM for this region is.... Dry.
I think they are waiting for your vital input on the matter. They are lost without you. We are all lost without you. What ever shall we do to prepare chuff? Help us OB-Rick, you are our only hope.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Prior to the above emergency legislation, there was absolutely NO action nor legislation in preparation for this situation. NONE!
You fuking idiot... Jerry's family has been getting federal help for CA's water woes for over 50 years. You have to be a special kind of stupid if you think this issue just crossed Jerry's mind... and there was "NO action" in preparation for this situation.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Google Pat Brown you idiot. Not only did CA ask for federal help for water issue, they got quite a bit of it. You know nothing about everything, don't you.
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lubbockclimber
Trad climber
lubbock,tx
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It's finally raining here in Texas!!!!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Yeah, you'd think Jerry would have done something...
http://www.water.ca.gov/watertransfers/docs/9_drought-1976-77.pdf
(psst, dipsh#t... see page 91 and beyond where they talk about federal and other relief for the drought. Pay no attention to pg 167, it is above your head. And yes, of course Jerry is absolutely responsible for the State's response to water issues over the last 30 years.)
San Luis... federal funding for part of the SWP. Thanks Pat.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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derpy derpy derp
Chuff Ricki for Governor!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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"infra-what"... who cares, it is Jerry's fault.
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