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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:02am PT
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Bruce Kay:
Second half of the Dust Bowl is about to start on the Boob Tube. There will be a test after.
That show was powerful. Impressive how they brought it through to the 60s instead of ending in 1939 as they might have ... and following through showed the same mistakes made all over again, not just a second time but a third ... with the fourth yet to come, as the Ogallala Aquifer is pumped dry.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 20, 2012 - 05:55am PT
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This work combines authentic movement with the vertical environment as part of the 350.org Day of Action. Shifts in regional climate have already had direct effects on the practice of rock and ice climbing in the Northeast: wetter summers accelerate lichen growth and reduce the number of days dry to enough to practice the sport, while more frequent winter thaws have rendered ice climbing conditions more fickle and low-lying venues in particular more ephemeral. The climbing community at Middlebury, throughout the Northeast, and at the national and international scales needs to engage with the issue of climate change in a way that acknowledges the environmental impact of our sport while seeking fresh approaches to interacting with the climbing environment in a thoughtful and lasting manner. The Pitchoff Chimney Cliff, located in the Adirondack High Peaks, provides an ideal setting in which to communicate to other climbers the significance of crossing the threshold of 350 parts per million atmospheric C02. As passionate Adirondack climbers, we have a particularly strong interest in reaching out to others who might share an essential need to shelter one of the most meaningful landscapes we can imagine from the degradation of a shifting climate. While collectively the three of us have been to the Pitchoff cliff dozens of times over the past several years, the inspiration to combine climbing with the practice of authentic movement is a direct product of this course, one that could never have been envisioned otherwise.
[Click to View YouTube Video]Say you're sorry, you won't do it again, kumbaya. Good luck, Mr. Hartouni. You are going uphill, and the brush is pretty thick, and the trail's the other direction. Some will never get the point.
I'd like to know more about the 350 movement, if anyone out there's involved, from hands-on experience...
http://www.350.org/
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 06:46am PT
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very interesting mouse from merced,this is the point,where i live ,near the dacks,climate has changed.i have been backcountry skiing in the northeast since the early 80's,its not just the lack of snow,beetles and moths killing our trees,blights killing others,rabid undergrowth.fleas live here year round,they were never capable before.water quality ,warmed,overgrowth of bacteria,brook trout are near extinct.we used to get feet of snow ,now,rains and tornados.all of this very ,very fast.talk to someone from greenland,or eastern canada,not speculation,or opinion,truth of personal observations.climate change has happened,its people like the chef holding on to an opinion that has held up any real progression on fixing our destructive ways.perception,as in the publics, has to change.....cc has effected everything here,ski areas shut down,cliffs overgrown,no whitewater kayak seasons,now we get hurricanes,lymes disease,60 degree days at least once a month for almost 4 years now.yeah ,the chef,your ,right ,your right ,your always right........i do not have any link for you to not read.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 08:33am PT
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or talk to someone from nh,thanks chiloe,great link.my point exactly.i believe cc is happening between where you live and i,faster than anywhere ive been on this continent.people who are outdoors alot see it,not just read about it.hence the rub
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 20, 2012 - 08:43am PT
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It's very noticeable right around where I live. In fact it was personal experience with skiing, not reading scientific reports, that started me thinking about local climate change.
Saw a talk the other day (actually, a "Science Cafe" held at a tavern in Portsmouth) about the impacts of climate change on our forests. Maples and hemlock are in trouble.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 09:04am PT
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i am a 34 year carpenter,ski instructor and bike mechanic,between those i can get to a crag now and then,i am outside all the time,in backcountry,i have seen it ,our trees are in trouble, also,our waters.my best friend,ray wright is a salmonoid biologist,our headwaters in wny ,are degrading at a shockingly fast pace,and with a pretty long drought[for around here],native brook trout populations have damn near been wiped out. if you wonder,how can wilbeer[terence wilson]have any contempt for those who disagee with him on this matter,see chiloe.........skiing is a very personal matter for me!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 10:16am PT
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they may be trouble to you folks.......really,thank you very little.i wish you could play hockey.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 20, 2012 - 10:39am PT
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Men of science just can not conceptionlize the premise of constant uncontrollable change. Regardless the engine which drives it.
Chief. I don't know what planet you live on, but obviously it isn't this one. Since you are retired, why don't you enroll in college and take a few geology classes? The Earth is constantly changing.
It won't make your balls shrivel up and fall off. In lieu of classes I can recommend some textbooks to read on your own, but going to lecture makes things easier to understand.
That whole post is total bullsh#t. TOTAL bullsh#t. ABSOLUTE bullsh#t. ORBITAL bullsh#t.
edit: so is the one above. Tell me where that mountain is located and then give us a synopsis of the geology.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Nov 20, 2012 - 10:48am PT
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I can see why it's hard to ignore the chief, considering the absolute ridiculousness of his posts. But show some self-control. Let him have his conversation with himself. The less you respond to him, the less he has to respond to.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2012 - 10:57am PT
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The irony of this whole story, soon you (Humans) will all be gone. But life on planet earth will continue in it's own very special way
Is there any way we can have a Tribal Counsel and vote The Chief off the island??
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 20, 2012 - 10:57am PT
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Now you're just being pedantic. "Men of science" have no problem with the poles swapping, ice ages, or any other aspect of the planet's 'behavior'. "Men of science" further understand the near-term issues of climate change's impact on humanity are largely ones of lifestyle. And maintaining our current living standards and social behaviors as best we can in the face of changing climate is the focus of many efforts given it's our very 'lifestyle' that is contributing to the problem.
So that means we have four fronts on which "men of science" can act:
1) research to better understand what's happening
2) work to change our contributory behavior
3) understand what, if anything, we can do mitigate the change
4) plan as a society to compensate for inevitable near-term and long-term consequences such as sea level rise
"Men (and women) of science" are the ones who don't have their heads in the sand or up their asses denying climate change exists, that man is a contributory factor, or that there are things we can and should do as a society and species per the four points above.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 20, 2012 - 11:03am PT
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As New Hampshire is geo-engineered down to the Carolinas they will have to make room by moving North Carolina to Cuba and Florida to the Equator.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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First of all, I don't really like the term "Geo Engineering." One of the more useful earth science degrees is geological engineering. I will use the term as you guys are, though.
The Mississippi River is a classic case of "geo-engineering."
Fluvial dominated deltas are just deltas that are dominated by fluvial, or river, processes rather than tide or wave dominated deltas.
The Mississippi Delta has that classic "bird foot" appearance that is the signature of a delta dominated by fluvial processes, which is one of my main areas of work.
You can look at the delta and see a number of distributary channels as the river hits the gulf of mexico. There is one main distributary channel at this time. As the river hits sea level it begins to dump its sediment load. The distributaries also build natural levees during high flow events when the distributary jumps its banks and immediately dumps its sediment load.
This leads to progradation of that particular delta fan. It progrades outward until the riverbed is actually above sea level. During a really high flow event, the distributary will eventuall jump its bank by avulsion and begin to create a new delta lobe. There are also usually a number of crevasse splays, which are basically small sub channels of the main distributary.
The whole shebang looks like this:
The old delta lobes sink as the weight of overburden squeezes the water out of the shales which surround the sand deposit of the old channel proper. This goes on again and again and again. Mud is about 90% water, and over time it gets squeezed by overlying sediment or simply dewaters under its own weight. This causes massive and quick subsidence.
The Mississippi has historically jumped and created a new distributary load about every 1000 years, and it would do so tomorrow if the Corps of Engineers quit their never ending battle to keep the distributary bed below sea level enough. That is a never ending battle that will be lost eventually. The river will avulse through the Atchafalaya River channels NW of New Orleans, and the lobe which contains New Orleans and all of that industry will sink below the waves. New Orleans is constantly sinking right now because there is no new sediment being deposited and the muds beneath it are de-watering into shales.
Right now the Corps of Engineers is constantly dredging the Mississippi River in an attempt to keep the channel from breaching and then beginning a new lobe, which will be located in an area where the water is deep enough to provide accomodation space for the sediment to deposit in the new delta. It almost happened a few decades ago. The River was at a super high flood stage and actually jumped into the Atchafalaya River basin, which has a steep shoreface and lots of accomodation space.
Here is a kind of groovy graphic from wiki that shows various lobes of the Mississipi delta over the last 5000 years:
This would not be a problem if it were not for the fact that New Orleans sits on the current lobe, which is being artificially kept alive by dredging of the channel and controlling its direction by dikes and dams.
I remember my first sedimentary petrology professor saying that New Orleans would eventually become a mud hole, and there was nothing we could do to stop it.
This is true. All the Corps of Engineers is accomplishing is slowing the process down. Eventually that current lobe will build so far out to sea that it will be force to take off down the Atchafalaya and create a new lobe. All of this engineering that is keeping New Orleans and all of its associated industry above water is going to be a failure. I doubt that even the Corps will refute that.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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The report from the World Bank:
Link: Turn Down The Heat
Why a 4 degree C World Must Be Avoided
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
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that happened over millions of years,and,what your quoting ,chef ,is science!it did not happen at the rate it is today,absolutely proven!you are quite the example of a man of science
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
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Boy are you smart Chief. There are dinosaur beds in the arctic and fern fossils in the Antarctic.
The first question this leads to is WHERE was that continent at that time? Continents are wandering all over the place, so was it at a tropical latitude at that time?
OK. You tell me how to solve that problem.
Hint: It is easy if you know anything about geology.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
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chefs last ,refers to deposition and cementation of fossils ,which on the short side,has been determined to have happened millions of years ago.fact i am pretty sure these facts,even w/dating procedures are not accepted.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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First of all, I don't really like the term "Geo Engineering." One of the more useful earth science degrees is geological engineering.
Personally I regret that the term "frakking" has lost its usefulness as a nerd curse due to re-purposing as shorthand for hydraulic fracturing, but that's probably off topic.
Anyway, good post on why NO unfortunately is doomed.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 20, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
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you nor any of your or ED's Science Man material world PhD's and human endorsed analyzing abilities are gonna ever change nor control any of it. Never.
So why are you against geoengineering when it cant even change anything about the climate or the earth?
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