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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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Doing research about geoenginnering (or about vortexes or stability analysis) is not the same thing as doing geoenginnering.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 11:06am PT
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There have been numerous threads discussing geo-engineering/chemtrails.
Yes, and those threads showed that chemtrails is a incorrect conspiracy theory.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 11:16am PT
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Oiy vey....that's how things are done, Raymond. You do research before you implement an action.
Cant the skeptics send someone that understands at least something?
The issue is not if it has been researched but if it has or is going to be implemented.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 19, 2012 - 11:48am PT
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I attended an AGU session on geoengineering last year; reaction from most of the panelists and audience comments was decidedly skeptical. I don't know of any survey but suspect that most scientists share this skepticism, based on many concerns that have been raised about its practicality as well as the possibly disastrous unintended consequences. Some of these ideas look insanely risky to me, and historical experience suggests they're almost certain to backfire in some rabbits-to-Australia kind of way -- but this time, affecting the whole planet's life support system.
The counterargument is that greenhouse warming is even riskier, and due to political paralysis we're not doing anything about it. There's an element of have-your-cake-and-eat-it: Burn all the fossil fuels you want, and the engineers will still save you.
Example of unintended consequences:
"Geoengineering could lead to a whiter sky"
http://www.agu.org/news/press/pr_archives/2012/2012-26.shtml
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
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Chief, you won't see the irony, but perhaps others will -- refusal to reduce greenhouse emissions is what drives calls for geoengineering research.
As if you were driving your bus full speed towards a tree, hands in a death-grip on the wheel, while some engineers trapped on board try to quickly build air bags and attach power saws to the front of the bus.
Of course there's a better way to avoid crashing!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
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Of course there's a better way
Instead of trying to control nature, (totally stupid dumbsh!t idea), maybe just maybe you guys can once again become harmonious with it.
Nature is fully alive and fully conscious of what you're doing.
Don't try and conquer it, control it, abuse it, but listen to it telling you what it needs to keep us in a harmonious state.
It will automatically reciprocate in a very nice way .......
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 19, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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Now it is getting strange. In Hawaii they're making it hard to install
residential solar because too much of a good thing is just another excuse to
screw people over for a $3000 study fee.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Too much of a good thing
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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So you Larry are condoning this activity and potential implementation?
No Chief, I am not. I meant exactly what I said, "Some of these ideas look insanely risky to me, and historical experience suggests they're almost certain to backfire in some rabbits-to-Australia kind of way -- but this time, affecting the whole planet's life support system."
Simple, turn the steering wheel and apply the brakes at a slow rate so as not to skid and lose control.
You mean, develop alternative energy and reduce fossil fuel use gradually? If so it's the first time I've seen you say that. It would refocus discussion onto just how fast that tree is approaching. But maybe you're just imagining a literal bus.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 19, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
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I watched a very well done and unexpectedly harrowing PBS historical show about the Dust Bowl last night,
http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/dustbowl/
It's on again tonight, 8-10 EST.
THE DUST BOWL chronicles the worst man-made ecological disaster in American history, in which the frenzied wheat boom of the "Great Plow-Up," followed by a decade-long drought during the 1930s nearly swept away the breadbasket of the nation. Vivid interviews with twenty-six survivors of those hard times, combined with dramatic photographs and seldom seen movie footage, bring to life stories of incredible human suffering and equally incredible human perseverance. It is also a morality tale about our relationship to the land that sustains us—a lesson we ignore at our peril.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Nov 19, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
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Hey, Chief...
Since we're talking about wasting tax money, how do you feel about the $700 billion we spend on "defense" every year? That's undercounting, but, still, I'm sure every one of those dollars is well spent...
Combined EPA and NSF federal funding is under $20 billion, so even if all of that went to "geoengineering" or related research, looks to me like it's a rounding error.
Just wondering how that comparison looks from your end.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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So the chief disbelieves all science that claim that CO2 makes the world warmer because that knowledge would result in carbon taxes and carbon taxes are going to result in funding for scientists that want to change the climate with geoenginnering.
It makes "perfect sense" now but I would say that it would be easier and more natural to try to avoid geoenginnering by limiting the polution. One way to do it is to use carbon taxes.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
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But obviously you and the others can not see that the geoengineering is in place and will be the primary mitigation process funded by Carbon Tax revenues.
So can you show a single evidence that geoengineering is in place?
If not, please show where all the revenue from the billions in carbon taxes will actually go.
I don't even know why someone believe that the money should go to geoengineering. The money could of course go to a lot of things.
I really doubt that at least large scale bioengineering is going to happen.
You just seem to be more and more crazy.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Nov 19, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
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Chief, do you actually read any of the contents of the links you post?
Just curious, since one of them include reports which have Edward Teller as their primary author. What do you think of his credibility?
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 03:35pm PT
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I might have misunderstood what you meant with "is in place". Large scale geoengineering is not in use today and nothing suggest that it will be soon.
Please do cite refs where the billions of dollars in revenue from the Carbon Taxes will be going.
Why should I? You where the person that made a claim and you are the person that should back up your claim.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
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Do you have a point?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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well said bobinc,will you answer that,the chef?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
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It is well known from volcanic events that sulfur dioxide and various aerosols cause a higher opacity in the atmosphere and lead to cooling events. I mean within 12 month cooling events. Very quick.
There isn't any notable public atmospheric engineering going on at the moment.
Sure, there are ideas, but there are ideas on everything.
The real engineering is going on in secret at the HARP facility in Alaska. They are tweaking the Earth's magnetic field because the Rand corporation back in the fifties discovered that certain magnetic anomalies affect the human mind, making the populace more docile.
HARP has been active for many years, and Obama is currently secretly pushing Agenda 31 of the U.N. Expect U.N. troops to roll in within a couple of years.
People are aware of this. There has been a huge run on ammo since Obama took office. Nobody noticed how Obama got elected: He gathered information on voters down to the individual scale. Obama's database now includes everything you have ever written on the internet, and knows who to round up first.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
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Excellent post, Base104.
I've been expecting a knock on the door for awhile now. They will likely get to me pretty soon given I live in a known elitist center. Inyo County will take longer, I expect.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
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I figure that if you can't calm the idiots down, you might as well join them.
That whole Agenda 31 thing is a real conspiracy. I think Glen Beck recently wrote a book about it.
Obama isn't a Kenyan. He is secretly an alien who is prepping us for alien invasion. The climate change issue is just a way to distract us until we are ready for colonization.
It will begin on the date that the Mayan calendar ends. I know all of this because I communicate directly with the aliens. I use an old analog radio and turn the dial to a secret frequency. Then I play the "static" backwards and get my instructions.
First we are rounding up all of the guns in about a year. Weather manipulation is just a distraction.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 19, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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There is no geoengineering going on. What is happening is a lot of research and scifi imagineering and policy wonkery. Intellectual Ventures while not a patent troll per se, is basically a patent house that funds some interesting patentable research - they are not, nor will they ever be engaged in any actual geoengineering.
And you guys can post up all the fire tanker, vortex study, and LEMV pics you want, but none of them have anything whatsoever to do with geoengineering and that you can't tell the difference basically says it all.
Again, dude, get a friggin' grip, you might as well be saying all naval flag officers are aliens.
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