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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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When we are military we are not different colors.
Then we as a nation should just be open and honest about the fact we are still militarily engaged with Native American tribes.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Don Paul, those were pretty cool photos. Thanks for sharing them. I liked the Ament and Bachar shot. What a nice surprise.
MFM
I posted this Buffy song, her most pungent, to the Patriotic Song thread: Rainbow Quest.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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It's interesting in light of the late JB's comment that Adolf Hitler felt he was patterning the Ost Plan for racial genocide after the precedent established by white European Americans as they colonized the Western frontier and exterminated the indigenous native peoples. I think I read somewhere that Hitler said that the Volga River was going to be "our Mississippi", implying I guess that after all the Slavs and Jews were exterminated the trans-Caucasus was going to be colonized by Germans and other Aryans. IOWs: Hitler believed that the US had established a pattern for establishing a white racial hegemony that he was following implicitly during Operation Barbarossa. Interesting that an Austrian like Hitler would see another version of the American dream that didn't exactly conform to freedom, democracy and equality.
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Nibs
Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
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Fattrad = clueless.
great posts Doug, Tony Bird, and Healje.
Whenever someone talks in general terms about the behavior of American Indians they do not know what they are talking about. Every tribe was different in terms of government, 'world view,' in their experience of 'first contact' and how they responded to first contact. There is significant evidence that Pre-Columbian tribal interactions were quite different than those recorded by europeans. For example, most think of the Lakota as plains indians - but that was not their traditional homeland. they were pushed west by other tribes that were getting pushed west.
I learned about the Indian termination policy of 1953 reading "Klamath River of Renewal." Highly recommended book - author provides a well written history of the Klamath basin that led to the Klamath water wars. A tentative agreement was negotiated by the regional stakeholders that included ranchers, and tribal representatives. Many of these ranchers are the direct decedents of the original homesteaders. The original homesteaders from the Scott Valley and Yreka had invited the Shasta Indians to celebrate a new treaty. They poisoned the food killing 3,000 Shasta Indians that day...Now, do you think that was old history to those surviving Shasta descendants sitting down with those ranchers to iron out that agreement?
Regarding Ron's statement that this tribe hates that tribe which hates that tribe...I know locally that a couple of tribes do not like each other, but that is a post contact phenomenon. We have about a half dozen tribes each speading a different language that, precontact, shared important "fix the world" ceremonies, intermarried, and had agreed upon methods for conflict resolution. Maybe those tribes you mention did too if you dig a little deeper.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Yeah, but we have wal-marts! Fast food! It's all a lot better than what was here before. Go drink out of your local river, you'll see!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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There is significant evidence that Pre-Columbian tribal interactions were quite different than those recorded by europeans. For example, most think of the Lakota as plains indians - but that was not their traditional homeland. they were pushed west by other tribes that were getting pushed west.
Do you think that tribes were pushed around in pre-Colombian times? If not, I imagine you're whacked, but OK.
If so, what exactly does "traditional homeland" mean?
The history of the world is the history of groups doing mean things to other groups--settlement of US by Europeans is a good example of that but by no means unusual.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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There is but one duty: to Germanize ["the East"] by the immigration of Germans, and to look upon the natives as Redskins. Quote attributed to Adolf Hitler in the link above.
Hitler learned that you can't mess with the people who have the money. Then they created a state for the Jews because of it and pissed off the Arabs and created the current state of affairs. This society is soooo unsustainable.
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Nohea
Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
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Jul 3, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
Why Fire works????????????/
we don't have to have a firework orgasm for any other holiday
Uh new years?
Yea we (as a nation) live in a post constitution era and have seriously screwed many people. The Nation is still known for Liberty and Freedom and for that it has been good for the world.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Had a good talk with Yerian this morning...we talked about the early history of the B/Y and his and John's trips up the route. Some great and classic information he let on. Just got off the phone with John Bachar Jr., John's Dad, we also had a great conversation, he is well and sends his regards on this hard time of the year.
Viva Bachar!
Peace
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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The New Age Blitzo
Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Strange how I have found myself going through my Bachar photos the past couple days.
Miss ya, John!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Blitzo, went up to the base of Medlicott when I got here. Remembering the man and the friend. Lynne
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Ron Anderson, why are you still hatin' on the injuns?
you won!
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juar
Sport climber
socal
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the rich and powerful always believe themselves the most oppressed
[ all that stress, guarding the stolen loot ]
the farse of july.
Melissa Harris-Perry is never one to mince words,
so for her MSNBC show's inaugural Independence Day episode, she got right down to business. Let's, too:
“The land on which they formed this Union was stolen; the hands with which they built this nation were enslaved; the women who birthed the citizens of the nation are second class.”
Word up like Cameo. She also discussed the failings of the American dream, observing that its emphasis on materialism is a mere fraction of the freedom it takes to get there.
watch
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/1019432/melissa_harris-perry%27s_awesome_4th_of_july_address%3A_imperialism%2C_genocide%2C_and_slavery/#paragraph6
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Thinkin' about ya Brother! Thanks for the times, memories, and friendship!
Peace
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Bachar bump.
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