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splitter
Trad climber
HighwayToHell
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Feb 16, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
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"Do unto others as you would have them do to you."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 16, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
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Who's on first...?
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
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Thanks Kingtut, I am well aware that Saddam was a Baathist and Assad was(is)similarly a authoritarian(and minority) ruler. Your comment of Iran supporting the Baathist Assad, yet being enemy's with Saddam threw me off a little. I will research it more. Thanks
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
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Jody,
Roger, I will admit the initial implementation was botched. But isn't this about people who are NOT already here? Try as I might, I cannot seem to find definitive evidence anywhere that prohibits the president from issuing an EO on a matter of NS that prevents even green-card holders, albeit temporarily in most cases, from entering the US.
The executive order on immigration ran into the constitutional requirement to provide due process to at least some of the people who were barred from entry into the USA. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. The president has pretty much complete power to deny entry to foreigners if he finds a compelling treat, but once a person is granted entry then they have more or less the same constitutional rights that citizens do, and there are long standing laws to deal with changes in their status. The states focused very specifically on those classes of visitors or legal residents for which there is no chance that any court would waive their due process rights in the absence of immediate threats. The government could not point to an immediate threat from these legal visitors or residents. The government lawyer knew was getting thrown out of court in the oral orguments and requested that the court only place a hold on the application of the executive order as it applied to protected classes. The court decided, I think, that it does not make law and does not rewrite executive orders, but the President can do so. The court's ruling is very narrowly focused on due process.
The states argued that the executive order was a “Muslim ban." The court notes this but declined to address in its decision.
This the paragraph from the 9th Circuit's ruling on due process.
In the district court, the States argued that the Executive
Order violates the procedural due process rights of various
aliens in at least three independent ways. First, section 3(c)
denies re-entry to certain lawful permanent residents and
non-immigrant visaholders without constitutionally
sufficient notice and an opportunity to respond. Second,
section 3(c) prohibits certain lawful permanent residents and
non-immigrant visaholders from exercising their separate
and independent constitutionally protected liberty interests
in travelling abroad and thereafter re-entering the United
States. Third, section 5 contravenes the procedures provided
by federal statute for refugees seeking asylum and related
relief in the United States. The district court held generally
in the TRO that the States were likely to prevail on the merits
of their due process claims, without discussing or offering
analysis as to any specific alleged violation.
There are other important legal issues of the right of the states to sue in federal court which they met with state university students who were barred from reentry.
The part of this which is so stupid is that Trump did not have to lead with his chin against settled constitutional law by applying his executive order to folks protected by the constitution. But he did, and the executive order has been temporarily stopped in its entirety. So, to the extent that the seven failed states and refugees from Syria pose an immediate security risks he was shot down for over-reach. So what are we make of his intent: was he just shooting off to meet a campaign promise or is there an immediate threat?
Today he said that they will reissue a different executive order next week. It might still be objectionable to many folks but it probably will not be against the law.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
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America is at war with itself due to being stoopid ......
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
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For those of you are arguing about Syria, there is another important issue that Obama had to decide. The wars Bush and Obama fought after 9/11 were legally covered by the congressional approval and the United Nations. It got stretched pretty thin and quite apart from an obvious need to intervene, it would have been an uphill battle in the congress and at the United Nations to take on Assad. Obama will have to carry those decisions forever but under the circumstances he might have been boxed in. Clinton did not agree with him and wanted the US to take a more active role.
With Trump considering sending in more US troops as advisors, we see how far he can push it.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
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The wars Bush and Obama fought after 9/11 were legally covered by the congressional approval and the United Nations.
Sure ... criminals can approve anything at anytime they want and call it legal .....
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
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The Trump Melt down has begun
I give him 2 weeks
From watching the press conference I'd say his doing too much coke.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:51pm PT
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America is at war with itself due to being stoopid ......
Wow. You're not completely wrong this time :-)
Curt
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:53pm PT
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From watching the press conference I'd say his doing too much coke.
UREKA! The perfect way for him to save his (presidential) azz - declare he's got a coke problem and going to rehab. Can't fire a man whose admitted he's got a problem and is seeking help.....
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 16, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
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Damn--anybody remember that super cool and kinda goofy black guy Barack?
Man, I miss that guy...
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 16, 2017 - 09:53pm PT
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Jim: thanks for sharing that jake tapper clip.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Feb 16, 2017 - 10:17pm PT
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^^^^^^^
America is at war with itself due to being stoopid ......
Damn, I actually agree with Braun. The world is ending.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 17, 2017 - 03:31am PT
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And yet he has the balls to stand up there, scold everyone but himself, and pretend that he's based in reality.
He condemned everyone except Russia.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Feb 17, 2017 - 04:14am PT
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Werner, the stupid, criminal majorities have been getting together, creating governments and making laws to limit the powerof intelligent and honest people for thousands of years. They have done this out of desperation: they cannot win an arguement or otherwise make an honest buck.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Feb 17, 2017 - 05:23am PT
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America is at war with itself due to being stoopid ......
There may be some truth in that Werner. It certainly seems a polarized nation, and who is driving that?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 17, 2017 - 05:27am PT
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We're all tribal by nature Patrick. I recall not too long ago some folks from your neck of the woods were killing folks not too far to the South and vis versa.
Tis the nature of things.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Feb 17, 2017 - 07:30am PT
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The Trump Administration is racing to get the word out and some buzz around sending troops to Syria (useless dirt).
Grrreat-
More blood
More treasure
More military family, broken lives
More vets to take care of- $$$
More stress on foreign relations
All to take attention off the "failing" Presidency- SAD!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Feb 17, 2017 - 07:43am PT
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We understand when a 5-year old doesn't take responsibility for what they say, but we expect good-natured adults to take responsibility for what they say.
We especially expect the President to take responsibility for what he says.
But, proving he has the mentality of a youngster, he doesn't own up to his own lies:
You said today that you had the biggest electoral margins since Ronald Reagan, 300 or more electoral votes. In fact, President Obama about 365 electoral votes.
DONALD TRUMP
I was given that information, I don't know, I was just given, we had a very, very big margin.
So far so good?
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