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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Mar 14, 2017 - 09:43pm PT
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Jody, king of obfuscation.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 14, 2017 - 09:44pm PT
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Maybe, Jody, you should look at the country as one big church; you tithe to help the poor and unfortunate and those not able to help themselves.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 14, 2017 - 09:51pm PT
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as if the government and people who held government jobs were the most evil thing on earth.
I wish I had a dime for every time YOU have asserted this exact point.
What people are responding to, is your hypocrisy. "Gov't is terrible, terrible, terrible-----except when it is paying me!"
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 15, 2017 - 12:25am PT
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I don't know how I got pulled into this thread...
Jody wrote:
LOL! And they had the same chance at the same job. It is all "bad luck" huh? Never bad CHOICES?
but for me, the "chance at a job" is equal parts demonstrated capability, potential and the help of others.
When I was a graduate student living in Manhattan in the 1970s we rented from Lore Segal, a partial apartment which she leased having taken one of the rooms to enlarge her apartment for her family, which included her mother and two children. She rented our apartment to students in need of a place. Because of her we found a place to live on what we made at the time, my NSF grant for graduate studies, thank you USA, and Debbie's waitressing job.
When Debbie became pregnant, her boss fired her, which was typical at the time (it being 1976). This dropped our income to just my grant, which wasn't a whole lot, I remember calculating that the $0.35 price of a NYTimes was a rather substantial part of my total annual income.
We read frequently, mostly in the Daily News about the shenanigans of a then much younger Donald Trump, a personality unchanged from his youth now 40 years ago. Nothing our president does surprises me in the least, it is totally consistent with the way he was then, and then he made it all about "The Donald."
Eventually we applied for and received Food Stamps to supplement our income, we were close enough to the poverty line to qualify. Thank you again USA for your support.
My daughter was born, more helping from the people at Columbia U. resulted in a job for Debbie administering a Saturday student program, and my daughter grew up in Pupin Hall. Other friends helped out with other jobs, I worked setting up rock and roll bands working for a friend of a friend who worked for Ron Delsener, generally paid in cash...
When I finished my degree I had the opportunity to work in research, and once again benefited from the help of many others.
Jody wrote: "I am OPPOSED TO THE GOVERNMENT TAKING FROM ME AND WASTING IT ON THE PRETENSE THAT IT IS HELPING SOMEONE TRULY IN NEED!"
well let me thank Jody for paying his taxes and likely helping someone out, who, like me and my family, needed the assistance. I don't think it is a pretense, the helping part, it is reality.
I could take the point of view, perhaps, that I am a "self made man," but the fact is, I did get a lot of help along the way from many different quarters. Because of that, I gladly pay my taxes and do believe that the USG uses that revenue to help out. My direct experience with the USG, both as someone who was once in need, and as someone who has reviewed its programs, that that support is far from wasted.
I, for one, am thankful, and I also aspire to be helpful, both in supporting the USG but also in ways that others were helpful to me. Without them I wouldn't have had the opportunities I have had. I think that used to be the spirit of being a member of a community. A community isn't just the sum of individuals, it includes how those individuals work together to the betterment of all.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Mar 15, 2017 - 04:25am PT
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^^
Now there is a guy that gets it.
Thanks for keeping it real.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 15, 2017 - 06:23am PT
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Gripping tale of dirt bagging it on the mean streets of Manhattan Ed.
But, back in the seventies it wasn't as fashionable for the USG to print money out of thin air. That USG assistance you're so thankful for came from millions of faceless tax payers.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 15, 2017 - 06:57am PT
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you two will be sucking the Trump tit for the rest of your lives. whether he's in the WH or Leavenworth
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 15, 2017 - 07:14am PT
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Buncha babies whining about their taxes.
I'm pretty sure I pay more than most people here.
I'm glad to do it.
Btw, food stamps and similar programs are a small part of the federal budget.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Mar 15, 2017 - 07:14am PT
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Jody wrote: "I am OPPOSED TO THE GOVERNMENT TAKING FROM ME AND WASTING IT ON THE PRETENSE THAT IT IS HELPING SOMEONE TRULY IN NEED!"
Oh, but if the truly in need are white, I'm sure that Langford is fine with it.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 15, 2017 - 07:21am PT
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Ah, I finally got it, that nagging mental itch! Jody reminds me of our long lost buddy Klimmer.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 15, 2017 - 07:28am PT
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it;s okay I know you are clueless as f*#k..
Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
— Proverbs 14:31
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 15, 2017 - 08:12am PT
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No, no, no Jody. The problem is you want to deny medical care to poor people.
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 15, 2017 - 08:21am PT
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Winemaker, no, not true. The poor can get medical care any time they want to.
actually, no
the "poor" can get immediate life saving service at the nation's Emergency Rooms
and is only because a man's man, a REAL Conservative Republican, Ronald Reagan
signed a law back in 1986 that all Americans regardless of status or income have a human
right to life saving health care
so why do you vote Republican then? Aren't you ashamed to be associated with Reagan?
a pure and true Libertarian would say fuk em, let em die!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 15, 2017 - 08:50am PT
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That USG assistance you're so thankful for came from millions of faceless tax payers.
Not so faceless if you actually go out and meet people, rick, and I acknowledged and gave my thanks to the taxpayers. And now that I am one, I am happy to contribute to our community especially given that I benefitted in a time of need.
As a nation we are much wealthier than those times in the 1970s, it is amazing to me, so I admit I really don't understand the apparent prevalence of the notion that the economic system has been "unfair," and that the aggrieved seem to be in better economic circumstances than a very large part of humanity, and with many more opportunities.
I do not share the view that the USG is "the problem," quite the contrary, as I view our form of government as being from the people, what ever the vagaries of the process by which that happens. And I do not see the country as a ethnically defined entity, but one defined by high ideas and high ideals. One's ethnic origins are not pre-requisite to assuming those ideals, or adopting those ideas.
Any student of 20th century history must become concerned when ethnonationalists movements become popular.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 15, 2017 - 08:54am PT
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In a way emergency room visits are not medical care. Yes, one can get immediate care, but that's not the end. I severed my quad tendon on Rainier and had surgery to repair it. If I hadn't had insurance, would an emergency room have treated me? I'm not even sure they would have. But the kicker was physical therapy, and lots of it (about 60 sessions), was what was needed to get me back in the mountains. Emergency room visits don't include that sort of thing, and that was what was necessary to make my chicken leg work again; it took two months to get my leg to bend 90°. Anyone without insurance would have been out of luck with 10 visits.
Yeah, you can go to the emergency room, but what about cancer, diabetes, hypertension, ulcers, and on and on? It's time for national health insurance, which will dramatically cut medical costs. Jody, you never responded to my post upstream about medical cost as a percent of GDP. The system is broken and it's time to fix it the right way.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 15, 2017 - 09:10am PT
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These conservatives don't care if people die or go bankrupt, they don't care about others that maybe suffering
That's why I said they are Not Socially conscience.
Which Jody took offense to.
If he cared, he would want Every kind of aid going to these people, be it the Government or Charity, they should be taken care of. Period.
And it isn't getting done w/out Gov. assistance, that is a fact.
Bad policies have made life and health care very expensive
But'
Just look at Paul Ryan's face, he's smug about taking away 24 million Americans health care insurance --- People will die because of HIS Plan
He doesn't care.
These people are "Conservatives Without Conscience"
Authoritarian Followers that don't use reason or intelligence
They follow a mental doctrine that has been bred into them.
Robert Altemeyer, a Canadian psychologist, has done extensive testing to isolate and describe the traits of the authoritarian personality. His results are distilled in his book "The Authoritarians." He describes religious fundamentalists, the core of the right-wing Republican base, as follows:
They are highly submissive to established authority, aggressive in the name of that authority and conventional to the point of insisting everyone should behave as their authorities decide. They are fearful and self-righteous and have a lot of hostility in them that they readily direct toward various out-groups. They are easily incited, easily led, rather un-inclined to think for themselves, largely impervious to facts and reason and rely instead on social support to maintain their beliefs. They bring strong loyalty to their in-groups, have thick-walled, highly compartmentalized minds, use a lot of double standards in their judgments, are surprisingly unprincipled at times and are often hypocrites.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/6651-the-rightwing-id-unzipped
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Norton
Social climber
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Mar 15, 2017 - 09:21am PT
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I believe our own Ken M IS a doctor so maybe he knows for sure
if the bill for Emergency Room care for those without health insurance is absorbed by the hospital that owns that emergency room or is a portion of the fee is sent to the US Government for payment
in which case all of us taxpayers are paying for the "poors'" emergency room visits
now that would really anger a true and pure Conservative, something for nothing oh my
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 15, 2017 - 09:22am PT
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You don't care if the Government takes away their assistance, correct?
They should find the assistance somewhere else, correct?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Mar 15, 2017 - 09:26am PT
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Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so right-wing authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result.... And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told. They are not going to let up and they are not going away.
You can take a test to see how big an authoritarian you are.
It's based on the Fascist (F) Scale
When you take it, you have to think of the Leaders of your Party as the top, not the Obama Admin.
http://personality-testing.info/tests/RWAS/
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 15, 2017 - 09:29am PT
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"concerned when ethnonationalist movements become popular".
No shet Ed! What with black lives matter, La Rasa etc.
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