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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Aug 27, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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Chris...
I hope you learned your biggest lesson HERE and one I thought I taught you.
DO NOT EVER GO PUBLIC VIA THE INTERNET ASKING FOR ANY ADVICE WITH ANY PLAN, EVER! REGARDLESS WHAT THAT PLAN MAY BE. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU ARE WILLING TO GET YOUR ASS ALL TORN UP BY PUBLIC OPINION.
Like the individual sphincters that they have, they indeed also have their opinions.
In the future just go frkn do it.
End of story!!
Hmmm, not so fast. Chris asked for advice beforehand. The first page or more of this very thread is responses that told him no, don't do it, rappelling El Cap is NOT a good idea. (On first page, only exception is Werner).
It was actually really smart to ask for advice here. The smartest decision he made during the entire adventure.
But the advice he got was not what he wanted to hear so he ignored it. That was his first and biggest mistake.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Aug 27, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
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Chris: true story sometime in 1975? One of the Regional Combatant Commanders at The Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center, California [Pickel Meadow on the east side over Sonora Pass] said he wanted 4 of his best trained to go down El Cap on Rohrer’s route, they refused or said to him F%ck you, it went to the Base Commander and he called it off due to danger of a training mission.
Base is used as a major subordinate element of Marine Air Ground Task Force Training Command, and with support from Marine Corps Installations - West, conducts unit and individual training courses to prepare USMC, Joint, and Allied Forces for operations in mountainous, high altitude and cold weather environments in support of the our wars.
Purpose: the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Operations Training and Readiness Manual, train elements of the MAGTF across the warfighting functions for operations in complex, compartmentalized, and mountainous terrain utilizing military mountaineering skills in order to enhance a unit’s ability to shoot, move, communicate, sustain, and survive in mountainous regions of the world.
*Just Highlighted a couple. You have already done some below. As for shooting, Ah! Another story just a different place.
MW-CLEQ-2041 Employ personal clothing and equipment
MW-CLMB-2050 Perform friction belay
MW-CLMB-2056 Perform mechanical belay
MW-CLMB-2061 Lead climb using aid climbing techniques
MW-CLMB-2062 Perform a vertical rescue
MW-CLMB-2063 Conduct a lead climb on steep earth *steep earth? Should change to steep terrain.
MW-CLMB-2064 Manage a fixed rope installation
MW-ENVR-2116 Implement the principles of mountain safety
MW-ENVR-2117 Implement the principles of mountain health awareness
MW-ENVR-2122 Field forecast weather
MW-MOVE-2178 Evacuate a casualty
MW-SURV-2213 Procure water *Would add with the addition of proper Hydration system which they do overseas. Some will buy their own 40% off and have it shipped free.
MW-SURV-2214 Construct an expedient survival shelter
MW-TRST-2247 Conduct knot tying drills
MW-TRST-2249 Employ rock protection
MW-TRST-2250 Construct an anchor
MW-TRST-2253 Manage a rappel site
MW-TRST-2254 Tension a rope using mechanical advantage
MW-TRST-2256 Manage a high-tension rope installation
MW-TRST-2257 Manage a raising/lowering system
MW-TRST-2259 Employ permanent rock protection
They do make a manual or show and some are questionable or better ideas from those climbers who have rapped the nose but will work.
So this does not mean you have to be a marine or join to do this, just some thinking next time. Issues that need to be worked out. No biggie.
And as for being a marine there are a lot of climbers here on ST that could teach better techniques that have higher IQ’s with using less crap.
When you tell the judge just tell him “Yes, Your Honour, I will not make this mistake again”, this way he will think you will not do the rap ever again while you are thinking in your mind just need to go the other way.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 29, 2012 - 01:44am PT
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classic Russel!
I've heard other reports, friend of a friend sort of things...
...what a cluster, including the extended cluster that is the STForum.
Evolution works, don't interfere!
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:50am PT
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lost,
That's a funny tale. My first time climbing/rapping/etc was at MWTC Bridgeport,up at Leavitt Training Area. Swiss seats and single lockers, fun times.
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bbbeans
Trad climber
Missoula, MT
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Aug 29, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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Chris, Thanks for sharing the experience in the trip report. It was certainly informative. You and Richard would have been in some really serious sh#t without YOSAR. Thanks for coming back to this forum and letting everyone know the story. That took guts.
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Googlymoogly
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2012 - 02:58am PT
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Chris,
Thanks for stepping up and answering so many of the questions posed here.
1. For the record, I never got the vibe you were blaming Richard in your posts. Your facts on the way he handled things pointed the blame.
2. You admitted you made lots of mistakes. Solid move. A great skill in life.
3. You two, as a team, were way in over your head for a mission of this size. Sometimes you only get one "pass" like this. Stick with experienced partners from here on out man. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
4. Going on a mission like this with a guy who's skill set was as limited as Richard's was for you, like getting in a car with a drunk driver. I'm glad you both walked away. Hopefully your friendship stays intact.
5. Keep learning, keep climbing, and keep posting up here. The two of you should just go climb Nutcracker or something and enjoy a nice day on the rock as soon as you can. Clear the air and talk some stuff out. I hope you both have a long and memorable alpine career. See you out there.
-Scott
I haven't climbed with Richard since, but I can say that I probably won't be doing much climbing or rapping with him in the future. We are on good terms but I don't feel he walked away from this learning a whole lot, and that worries me.
For them to recover from their mistake and continue down the Nose would have been quite a feat.
This is what bothers me most of all. It shouldn't have been a feat to continue and considering what I know it wouldn't have been if I had explored other options to help him out.
I have to laugh at the "45 pound" pack though.
What the hell was in that thing!
I have all the cams, pins, beaks, nuts, misc, 80 biners, my harness, both sets of aiders, both sets of hooks and my hammer; most of the hardware I'm going to use this fall on Lost in America and it weighs barely more than 45 pounds! (Weighed on a scale, +\- 8 oz accurate)
His pack wasn't even close to 45 lbs (Though every hiker on the falls trail that commented on the ropes we had was given the exact weight of his pack like it was an accolade). I am sure it felt heavy on the falls trail, as did mine, with a rope, water, food, cams/gear, clothes but even then 45 was probably pushing it. On the wall his pack was probably more like 15 maybe?
As for being dehydrated...I think he just felt sick and called it dehydration. By the time he had stated he was dehydrated, it was probably only 30-40 minutes from the last time he had water. I am not saying he didn't feel bad or sick, but I think his nerves are what made him feel sick.
Hmmm, not so fast. Chris asked for advice beforehand. The first page or more of this very thread is responses that told him no, don't do it, rappelling El Cap is NOT a good idea. (On first page, only exception is Werner). Most of the replies weren't advice at all. I didn't ignore any replies. I saw them all and made the decision to go, whether or not that was the right decision. That doesn't mean I ignored anything.
MW-CLEQ-2041 Employ personal clothing and equipment
MW-CLMB-2050 Perform friction belay
MW-CLMB-2056 Perform mechanical belay
MW-CLMB-2061 Lead climb using aid climbing techniques
MW-CLMB-2062 Perform a vertical rescue
MW-CLMB-2063 Conduct a lead climb on steep earth *steep earth? Should change to steep terrain.
MW-CLMB-2064 Manage a fixed rope installation
MW-ENVR-2116 Implement the principles of mountain safety
MW-ENVR-2117 Implement the principles of mountain health awareness
MW-ENVR-2122 Field forecast weather
MW-MOVE-2178 Evacuate a casualty
MW-SURV-2213 Procure water *Would add with the addition of proper Hydration system which they do overseas. Some will buy their own 40% off and have it shipped free.
MW-SURV-2214 Construct an expedient survival shelter
MW-TRST-2247 Conduct knot tying drills
MW-TRST-2249 Employ rock protection
MW-TRST-2250 Construct an anchor
MW-TRST-2253 Manage a rappel site
MW-TRST-2254 Tension a rope using mechanical advantage
MW-TRST-2256 Manage a high-tension rope installation
MW-TRST-2257 Manage a raising/lowering system
MW-TRST-2259 Employ permanent rock protection
As you said, those may not all be practical, but I will see if I can find them just out of curiosity.
When you going back up there to rap the Nose again, Chris? You don't happen to be a YOSAR guy trying to get evidence against me do you? But in all seriousness, I never said I won't go back. If I do it will be a while though. The single issue of finding a partner, and getting to know/trust them would take a while by itself. And thats just one challenge while assuming it is still an interest of mine.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 30, 2012 - 05:26am PT
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hey, isn't facelift coming up? why don't we all meet at the top and do a mass "Rap El Cap" conga line. that would be fun. Chris can even return for a encore. Probably get in the Guinness book of world records.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Aug 30, 2012 - 07:36am PT
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^^^^^ Conga! [Like]
Get Welt-it to organize or many will dye.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 30, 2012 - 09:55am PT
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Jon and I are going to be fixing pitches at the base of El Cap starting Sept 13. Why don't you come on by and learn stuff? Bring your jugs.
Anyone else for that matter. We can always use help getting the junk show up to the base and a few pitches up. We'll have some beers, have some fun, you can learn some cool hauling and pig packing tips. Learn how to lower your Wank Factor and tame your entropy. Get your Big Wall Tips of the Day right on the wall.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Aug 30, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
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Hmmm, not so fast. Chris asked for advice beforehand. The first page or more of this very thread is responses that told him no, don't do it, rappelling El Cap is NOT a good idea. (On first page, only exception is Werner).
Most of the replies weren't advice at all. I didn't ignore any replies. I saw them all and made the decision to go, whether or not that was the right decision. That doesn't mean I ignored anything.
"That doesn't mean I ignored anything" Well, in point of fact, yes it does. You asked for "any thoughts." The very first response was "Don't do it....." it also advised you that SAR already had enough to do. That's a reply. A blunt one, too. Given such negativity, it would have been smart of you to review, with extreme care, the skills, equipment and planning of yourself and your partner.
Sorry to bring this up again. When you call out a rescue it puts lives at stake. I know I'd feel truly terrible if I needed a rescue due to some stupid goof and, say, Werner were to die during said rescue. My friend Hugh Herr, inexperienced, and after being advised that the weather forecast was bad, set out to climb Mt Washington. Sure enough, weather went real bad, they suffered frostbite, became lost, needed rescue. One of the rescue team died. Something that will haunt Hugh his whole life.
I don't mean to be too hard on you. I've done plenty of stupid things over the years. How about this: I recall trying, long ago, an over-the-shoulder rappel, worked great at first but as the cliff steepened to overhanging the burning pain in my arm (no sleeves, duh) and shoulder (thin shirt) became unbearable. After I let go of the ropes I fell then landed in the top of a tree. Climbed down, unhurt, very lucky. That makes your El Cap efforts look pretty professional!
Enough. I really hope all goes well (or much better, anyway!) on whatever adventures you have lined up next.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Aug 30, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
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I never said I won't go back. If I do it will be a while though. The single issue of finding a partner, and getting to know/trust them would take a while by itself. And thats just one challenge while assuming it is still an interest of mine.
and figuring out how this rappelling thing is supposed to work.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 30, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
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Help Pete carry his gear and fix his pitches. I wish I'd had an opportunity to learn from someone that experienced, but I tend to learn things the hard way too.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 30, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
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Chris -- "I don't feel he walked away from this learning a whole lot, and that worries me."
That was my impression too after talking to him.
You actually were much more reserved.
I got the feeling right then and there that he was the major problem ....
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Prod
Trad climber
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Aug 30, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
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I got the feeling right then and there that he was the major problem ....
Oh... I thought it was your fault! Where's Cragman I think Richard needs a mentor.
Prod.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 30, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
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Jon and I are going to be fixing pitches at the base of El Cap starting Sept 13. Why don't you come on by and learn stuff? Bring your jugs.
PassThePitonsPete
That is a damn fine offer to take up.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 30, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
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It is, actually.
For the record, I am always looking for people to help schlepp stuff in exchange for learning stuff, and having lots of fun! I try to do two walls every wall season, which means there are always two chances to come and hang out. Bring your jugs, come on up on the wall, hang out, drink some beers, listen to some AC/DC, see how we assemble the systems, how you rack your rack, how you pack your pig, how you assemble the hauling systems and the suspension point above the pig. And yes, there will be a pig with your name on it waiting at the bridge! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha~!!!
I am very blessed to have had so many kind folks come and help me over the years, and you're always going to learn stuff. If you're available mid September, let me know. I'll also be starting a second wall early October. And of course, same thing next spring and fall - so stay in touch, eh?
Incidentally, frequent flyer points, groceries and beers are usually enough incentive to convince me to climb a wall with you. [HINT] As long as it's something on El Cap that I haven't yet climbed, pretty much any route will work. Of course, if it has any free climbing, then those are YOUR pitches, mate! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
Just arrived in Kentucky, to do a couple exploration and survey trips into Mammoth Cave, the world's longest cave. Rumour has it we will set a New World's Record this weekend!
Cheers and margaritas!
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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This celebrity got Guglielmucci'd in his kayak, courtesy of the Coast Guard:
"not lost, we knew where exactly where we were, paddling around from csh (Cold Spring Harbor) into wind, we ran out of day. Grand adventure eh."
Edit: This is what happens when Gladiators don't keep up their training after 40.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Good One!
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Googlymoogly
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
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Jon and I are going to be fixing pitches at the base of El Cap starting Sept 13. Why don't you come on by and learn stuff? Bring your jugs.
PassThePitonsPete
That is a damn fine offer to take up. I emailed pete as soon as I saw what he said. It is a great offer I won't miss out on!
This celebrity got Guglielmucci'd in his kayak, courtesy of the Coast Guard: I have my own word now? If only it was a positive one. Not saying I won't use it though
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