Bowe Bergdahl

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Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 6, 2014 - 10:36am PT
Fluffy, Sen McCain is certainly past his prime but since my point escaped your perusal I will
reiterate it: the good senator engages in civil discourse, a pastime honored mainly in the
breech on this forum.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 6, 2014 - 10:55am PT
DMT, even without the late and great Jack Webb to clarify things there is one fact: Bergdahl
went over or under the wire willingly. His only defense will be Article 850a.07:

(a) It is an affirmative defense in a trial by court-martial that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the accused, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of the acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense.

(b) The accused has the burden of proving the defense of lack of mental responsibility by clear and convincing evidence.

(c) Whenever lack of mental responsibility of the accused with respect to an offense is properly at issue, the military judge, or the president of a court-martial without a military judge, shall instruct the members of the court as to the defense of lack of mental responsibility under this section and charge them to find the accused—

(1) guilty;
(2) not guilty; or
(3) not guilty only by reason of lack of mental responsibility.


fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:09am PT
reilly i used to respect him too but now he's just a partisan hack, a pawn who contradicts himself when its politically expedient. also, he allowed palin to be his running mate.

so whatever he was, he's a pos now.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:13am PT
Bowe Bergdahl's former squad mates all say he deserted his post to go find the Taliban and join them.

He left his weapon and all his gear behind in camp when he crawled out to avoid his fellow soldiers detection.

He was not on any mission to kill the enemy but to join them.

That makes him a traitor. Hanging may be to light a punishment.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:17am PT

All the poor patriotic spectators are so disappointed that Bowe was not brainwashed well enough (by our military) to kill at will and then come home and suffer with it. He just lost it sooner than many.

But as DMT is saying we really don't know it is mostly speculation and the news can't be trusted.

What a bunch of bullsh*t, to expect our youth to go fight in others civil wars and pretend it is justifiable; the guy is another victim of war.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:34am PT
Having read quite a bit more about this in the last few days I do think there are things that we "know"

The man went AWOL in an apparent attempt to desert. It's hard to find anything contradictory to this statement and there are multiple reliable sources stating this.

We don't know some thing such as

We don't have a good grip on his mental state but offhand he sounds like an idiot. Although I doubt he can be found incapable of knowing his actions were wrong.

Obama did try to milk this as a PR "win" . That was pretty dumb and it is blowing up in his face as it should.

Bergdahl put mens lives at risk (possibly contributed to the deaths of servicemen) and got himself captured. It seems apparent he deserted. This a betrayal of his unit and fellow soldiers who's lives depend on each other. I think he should be court martialed for it and dishonorably discharged at the least. I think it would be unpaletable to re-imprison him but I could be persuaded either way on that issue if the facts are as they seem. Especially if it can be shown that deaths are directly attributable to his actions.

I do think we had a duty to get him back and the cost we paid to do so is fine with me. If for no other reason than to give undoubted absolute support to the "leave none behind" credo that matters a great deal. It matters to those in combat areas and especially future POWs. Our armed forces need to know that no matter the circumstances that they can count on us to get them home.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:35am PT
PSP, Bergdahl will not be court-martialed for 'causing disappointment' or eliciting anguished hand-wringing by the poorly potty-trained and otherwise intellectually and emotionally
incapable of understanding the necessity of discipline in a combat zone for which one
volunteered to go to. He will be court-martialed, hopefully, for desertion as defined in the UCMJ:

885. ARTICLE 85. DESERTION
10. Punitive Articles
(a) Any member of the armed forces who–
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service;

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:40am PT
Make sure Susan Rice is on your list of people who are either lying sacks of "shet," grossly incompetent, or, most likely both.

Here's what she said to try to backpedal on saying that Bergdahl served with "honor and distinction" (from CNN):

Colleville-sur-Mer, FRANCE (CNN) -- President Barack Obama's national security adviser said Friday that her full-throated praise of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was appropriate given the former Taliban prisoner's willingness to go to war for his country -- despite questions about whether or not he deserted his Army colleagues.
Susan Rice, who on Sunday said Bergdahl served the United States with "honor and distinction," told CNN in an interview that she was speaking about the fact the Idaho native enlisted and went to Afghanistan in the service of his country.
Rice: Bergdahl deserves 'due process'
"I realize there has been lots of discussion and controversy around this," Rice said. "But what I was referring to was the fact that this was a young man who volunteered to serve his country in uniform at a time of war. That, in and of itself, is a very honorable thing."

So I suppose her story now is that she meant that everyone who joined the army post 9/11 served with "honor and distinction?"

Does that include the soldiers who raped the Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her family?
I suppose Chelsea Elizabeth (nee Bradley) Manning also served with "honor and distinction"?

Are any of you so gullible that you really believe that a reasonable construction of her original statement that Bergdahl served with "honor and distinction" is that she was describing virtually everyone in the US armed forces?

And don't forget that Ms. Rice is the same truth teller who claimed the Benghazi was the result of that Internet "movie."

My own theory is that Obama, Rice, and their ilk actually do think Bergdahl served with "honor and distinction" by deserting and joining forces with the Taliban--that is their natural starting point and their true beliefs, but they forget that most Americans don't quite see it that way (yet). Once they saw that they were outside the mainstream, they ginned up their "bullshet" excuses.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:46am PT
The public handling of this situation has been idiotic. On both sides. The admin should have been clear about the ugly details this man got captured under. They should have said that regarless the circumstances our policy is to bring all POWs home and that Bergdahl is however under investigation regarding the circumstances of his capture.

Done and then the only issue they would have had to deal with was the price we paid to get him back.

I am beginning to believe Obama has no "feel" for military culture. I'm a civilian that grew up around it and worked alongside it a bit and mostly respect what I know of it. I think I have as decent a feel for it as a civilian can. AT it's best the military simply has my highest admiration. Yet it is not always at it's best and even those who served have differing viewpoints.

Obama or at least folks in his administration just seems oblivious to some pretty basic concepts though.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:55am PT
Mostly agree with climb2ski, but describing Obama and Rice as merely being "idiotic" isn't strong enough.
They're also shameless liars--we're lucky that they're also idiots (at least in some respects--of course Obama is clever in some ways) so that their diabolical schemes at least sometimes backfire.

I am beginning to believe Obama has no "feel" for military culture.
Ya think?
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
You are all wrong. This was handled perfectly.
Luckily, the president probably doesn't read this forum for foreign policy advice.

Ya'll really need to turn off Fox.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
LOL he called a deserter a hero.. Not wise. He should have called those who secured his release heroes.

Now if you want some folks to blast on .. lets get on McCain and his ILK.. those guys are real traitors IMO.

In case you haven't noticed I'm not much of an admirer of either side of the corprotacratic isles.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
Serving in the National Guard during a shooting war is desertion.

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever read.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
I find it odd that a soldier can have PTSD after their service,but cannot have TSD during their service.

So you all know his mental condition ,aye ,doctors?

You all are correct,just hang him.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
Luckily, the president probably doesn't read this forum for foreign policy advice.

Right, he gets it from Ms. "I'm not a liar, I'm just an idiot" Rice!

From that right wing stalwart, the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/06/06/susan-rice-compares-bowe-bergdahl-controversy-to-benghazi-reaction/
“Similarly with Benghazi, as has been recounted on many occasions, I provided the best information that the U.S. government had at the time,” she said. “Parts of it turned out to be wrong. I regret that the information I was provided was wrong and that I delivered to the American people. That doesn’t make me a liar. That makes me a public servant trying to say what we knew at the time and when I gave that information I caveated it and noted that it was what we knew then and there, but it could well change.”
If Rice was not aware of Bergdahl’s past last weekend, however, it isn’t because questions about him had not arisen before.
As first reported Tuesday, an Army investigation into Bergdahl’s actions found in 2010 that he had likely walked off his base in Afghanistan of his own volition. If he meant to return, he would still be considered AWOL under Army policy. He also could be charged with desertion, a more serious crime that typically arises in cases in which an individual planned to remain away from the military or to “shirk important duty.” A combat assignment like Bergdahl’s at the time would likely qualify.
Even if the result of that classified investigation did not reach Rice, however, there was ample evidence in the public domain ahead of Bergdahl’s release that he may not have served honorably. Most notably, a 2012 profile in Rolling Stone magazine by the late journalist Michael Hastings raised serious questions about whether he had chosen to walk off his base, even choosing to leave behind sensitive military equipment and his rifle to avoid problems.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
Every man has reasons for doing the wrong thing.. and we still hang them anyway. Well I am not for giving the power of the death penalty to a flawed state and legal system.. but you get my drift.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
Or maybe he gets advice from people with a lot of stars and bars on their uniforms.

Again, Fox is not your friend.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
I doubt the JCOS advised the PR stunt part of this.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
Yes, like getting a US soldier home with his family.

Unplug the Fox scandal machine and enjoy life.

And quit listening to the shameless sore loser, John McCain

A growing number of mainstream media outlets are holding Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) accountable for flip-flopping on his support of a deal to release Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl from Taliban capitivity.

McCain joined in the right-wing outcry that followed the White House's May 31 announcement that it had secured the release of Bergdahl, the only U.S. service member remaining in enemy hands from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, telling Politico that he "would not have made this deal" if he was the president and denying that he was ever told of the potential prisoner exchange in an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo.

McCain's February position was already a change from the position he held in January 2012, when Rolling Stone's Michael Hastings reported that McCain "reluctantly came around" on the idea of exchanging the five Guantanamo detainees in question for Bergdahl.

McCain's rejection of the deal stood in stark contrast to his position on the issue just months ago, when he told CNN's Anderson Cooper that he "would be inclined to support" "an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man," depending on the details -- an inconsistency the media initially missed.

dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jun 6, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
Crankster how's your pair of "Susan Rice" oval office knee pads holding up?
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