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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 13, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
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that's fine. bring your f*#king A game, as#@&%es, or i will sit here and rip you a new one all day long
Why do you need a god to tell you how to be nice to each other ?
I don't really need God for that...but clearly you need someone or something to convince you of the need!
It is difficult for me not to try to persuade you to chill; but arguing isn't really my thing. I don't understand why you are ranting about favorite Bible quotes and deaths of innocent children and the other problems of 2010. I can understand why these problems upset you... they upset everyone (or should).
That is about for me...
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Chinchen
climber
Anacortes, wa
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Mar 13, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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Shut the f*#k up and go climbing.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Mar 13, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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still awaiting a point by point refutation of my enumeration...
and dude - he called me a few names with absolutely no substantial arguments - he wants to play as#@&%e, I call as#@&%e ;-)
packets of love your way my friend...seriously...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 13, 2010 - 08:33pm PT
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What are you basing your spiritual beliefs on?
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 13, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
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My sincerest apologies! I thought all the name calling was directed at me; and I sincerely appreciate the kindness of your "packets".
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Mar 13, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
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Just got home, I have no stomach for fighting...
The Christian in your face bible yellers drive me crazy ....just as much as the Christian haters..
Wish we could respect each other a bit more...
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Mar 13, 2010 - 10:01pm PT
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I think one of the real pitfalls of the quest is to think or believe that if you have never had any kind of spiritual experience, then that is proof that one doesn't exist. Ergo, if I've never been to a place called Yosemite, and have never actually put my hands on El Cap and felt it and so forth, then it doesn't exist.
And you'd be right about that, for without the experience itself, "it" is merely an idea, a feeling, a sensation, a phantom, a cruel lie . . .
But don't stop there. That's just the first pitch.
JL
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jstan
climber
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Mar 13, 2010 - 10:15pm PT
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JL:
Your El Cap simile does not work. You show someone a picture of it and they will say, "Cool. someday I want to go there."
Give us a photo pf god. Oh we'll also need an e-addy. Need to schedule a water walking demo.
Now you are talking.
In the meantime I don't know whether a god exists.
I have noticed however it does not seem to make any difference whether one exists or not.
So, no problem.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 13, 2010 - 10:23pm PT
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When I see bear tracks, I don't need to see a photo of the bear to know it's around somewhere.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Mar 13, 2010 - 10:53pm PT
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Nita - "The Christian in your face bible yellers drive me crazy ....just as much as the Christian haters..
Wish we could respect each other a bit more..."
True.... I wish I could be as open minded as others...
But when you are living in a world where something like this can really be thought up and enacted?
Utah Abortion Bill: Punishing Miscarriages or Preventing Crime?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/utah-abortion-bill-punishing-miscarriages-preventing-crime/story?id=9955517
I'm afraid I cannot subscribe to the "get along" idea.....
From a personal perspective abortion, miscarriages and multiple pregnancies cannot really effect me.. I will never have to make that decision.
But, once someone has walked the mile in her shoes, then they may be able to better understand her plight.
Is this really what being religious is about?
Controlling others? - (I have to say.. this is what if feels like)
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Mar 13, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
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Jingy, i am mainly talking about having a adult conversation ...without the name calling.
edit:Jingy, this fall- facelift, same conversation...in person...real campfire..
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Chinchen
climber
Anacortes, wa
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Mar 14, 2010 - 12:11am PT
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Or we could stick to talking about climbing. Politics and religion have been the death of many an online forum, Im about ready to give up on this one too.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Mar 14, 2010 - 01:02am PT
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JL:
Your El Cap simile does not work. You show someone a picture of it and they will say, "Cool. someday I want to go there."
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John, you're thinking in terms of a materialist, but so be it. Let me state it differently.
If someone has a direct experience, that experience becomes a part of that person's life. If they don't have a direct experience, they must fall back to ideas, feelings, sensations, and so forth. Lacking the direct experience, people will often insist that the aforementioned ideas (beliefs), feelings, sensations are the experience I mentioned. Not the case at all . . .
JL
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 14, 2010 - 06:26am PT
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In the midst of enemy territory, I have come to finally realize that it is/was the enemies very hate that crucified Jesus Christ, and this very hate that saved my soul from spending eternity in hell when I leave this world. So, this helps me have compassion for those that don't understand. It's okay for those to hate for "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you." (John 15:18) For those that hate in this thread, Glory to God! And for you Christians, God promises to bless you as you defend His name; "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." (Matthew 5:11) What a God!
Remember Christians, in your eyes, it's not about you! "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Nothing was mentioned about loving yourself in that passage. You are just a vessel that God uses to love Him and to take His word and to turn and pass it on to others. Don't hang on to His Word for if you do you will inevitably turn it into pride and God hates pride, "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate." (Proverbs 8:13) Instead, turn and give it to others. When you are feeling empty, low, and need more, you are right where He wants you to be. Turn back to God to get replenished and keep the cycle going. It's all about Him and to help others see His love as well.
The biblical defintion of Love: the willing, sacrificial giving of oneself, for the benefit of another, with no thought of return." By doing this we accomplish the reason we are here on this earth, to be conformed to the image of Christ; "And we know that all things work together for good (this doesn't apply to everyone, as the cliche' goes, "it's all good" but) to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:28-29)
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Mar 14, 2010 - 08:20am PT
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Are the threads about guitars, Econolines, Unexpected Photos, longboards, stitches, socialism, music causing the same death to the forum? Or is it the expression of values that you personally disagree with?
I don't see posted complaints i.e. insults and rudeness there; just nice pictures, compliments being exchanged, and pleasant conversation. No one arguing about whether they exist or not, appropriateness, etc.
If you don't have any interest in a topic, don't post on it; if you can't resist be polite. Insulting people, especially the ones you know personally, is really whacked.
One last point, just because people have found Christianity and the Bible to be something that works for them, doesn't mean they back certain oppressive governmental ideologies, platforms or parties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7wEctHyuc0&feature=related
Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) ~ Peace Train
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Mar 15, 2010 - 01:06am PT
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One problem you've got PMB is that you have lumped ALL of Christianity into one package, without the slightest attempt to recognize ANY nuances of believe systems within it.
I, for example, do not believe in eternally burning hellfire, the eating of the literal flesh of Christ (cannibalism), original sin, that a Christian cannot question (I have a Ph.D. in philosophy, trained entirely in secular institutions, such as UC Santa Barbara), etc., etc. But you prefer to straw-man "Christianity" rather than to take seriously that many highly intelligent, extremely well-educated people are Christians; AND that not all Christians are Roman Catholics (the flavor of Christianity from which your spree of "Christian" claims is derived).
I did not "call you names." Instead I merely pointed out the obvious fact that you have evidenced again and again on this thread: You show that you don't care AT ALL about truth; you merely take perverse pleasure in drive-by shootings at Christians. Then, when I call you on it, you go ballistic, clearly evidencing, as another poster pointed out, that you yourself need someone to explain to you why to be moral and "nice" even when you don't agree with somebody. The very attitude and responses YOU engage in ARE the root of the world's problems that you claim are the result of Christianity.
You are hung on your own petard; your OWN reactions to my post speak volumes about you.
I have nothing to reply to your "questions" because I do not hold the positions you claim "Christians" do. I am a Christian, but you clearly know nothing about me or other Christians like me. Nor do you care to. It's much easier to simply straw-man "Christianity" and blame it for all the world's ills. That perspective of yours DOES make you a demonstrably superficial, fallacious, and careless thinker.
Ok, now you may feel free to yet again call ME names and level all the epithets you wish. Hung on your own petard.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 15, 2010 - 01:27am PT
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Hi, Richard. Good response. You gonna put on your rusted old POS wings of steel and fly out to Yosemite this spring and say hi?
I'm with Illusion Dweller.
Cheers,
PTL and PTP Pete
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Mar 15, 2010 - 01:49am PT
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Hi, Pete!
I would LOVE to get a week off in mid-summer to drop into the trench and check things out and see YOU! As always, the spirit is willing (and eager), but the flesh usually has too many other pressing commitments. But I need it! Dana needs it!
If the flesh doesn't make it, at least know that the spirit is with you.
Best!
Richard
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jstan
climber
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Mar 15, 2010 - 02:11am PT
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Where has there been hate on ST? People being PO'd isn't hate. You can't hate someone whose only flaw is they don't agree with you.
On being in enemy territory:
Even though he was surrounded by Union troops in numbers two or three times his own, R.E.Lee called them, "those people." Kept his mind unconfused and out of an emotional state. Call your adversary "gooks" and someone will begin thinking they are also stupid. Bad idea. Lee tried to understand his adversaries, so he could predict what they would do and why. Which he did in fact do.
So when you have someone who disagrees with you, try to understand what they are thinking. Lee was no dummy.
Here's what I think is going on here. Some of us feel in many ways that life is like floating down a river in a canoe. Where the water goes you go. The water rocks you, provides music and takes complete care of you.
Unfortunately there are other people furiously paddling upstream. some even getting out where it is shallow and manhauling their boats upstream. Their simple presence disturbs your river, goes against everything you know. And is just simply WRONG.
To understand why they are there you would have to get out of your canoe, break your reverie
and actually listen to what they are saying.
But that's a lot of bother. You are absolutely certain you are right so there is no need.
The people struggling upstream have seen that river in spring flood. Spring flood is not just some random event you wail over if it drowns your children. They are going upstream to a lake where they can safely winter. And then continue their journey after the flood.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Mar 15, 2010 - 05:25am PT
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jstan,
HATE, v.t. [L. odi, for hodi.]
1. To dislike greatly; to have a great aversion to. It expresses less than abhor, detest, and abominate, unless pronounced with a peculiar emphasis.
How long will fools hate knowledge? Prov 1.
Blessed are ye when men shall hate you. Luke 6.
The Roman tyrant was contented to be hated, if he was but feared.
2. In Scripture, it signifies to love less.
If any man come to me, and hate not father and mother, etc. Luke 14.
He that spareth the rod, hateth his son. Prov 13.
Not everyone's aversion to this post is great but I would conclude with some reasonable accuracy that there is less than love in some of them. The above definition was derived from the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary for it is considered to be one of the most biblicaly accurate dictionaries ever made and this is why I incorporate it when I study the Bible.
I understand how, "enemy territory" could be taken out of context but it is referring to satan and the world for satan is the little "g", god of this world, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." - 2Corinthians 4:4. And, really, I am not battling with those that contest this post, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. "- Ephesians 6:12.
You see, it's a spiritual battle not physical. Before I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal saviour I walked according to this world, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: " - Ephesians 2:2.
Satan's spirit is working IN those that aren't saved! "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." - 1John 4:3.
But even I am not immune for he oppresses me (outside pressure) every day! He can't "possess" me anymore for the Spirit of God lives in me now. And as a matter of fact, I don't even own myself! "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Cor 6:19-20.
There's no name calling intentions in my responses for like I said earlier, "It's all about Him and to help others see His love as well."
more later...
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