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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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Skip, gotta go to a meeting right now.
But, just what math did I present, on what topic, that I was wrong on?
Or are you confusing me with another poster about math?
I honestly don't remember presenting inaccurate math.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 15, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
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Norton..Tea Party meeting...?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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Hi all, back from playing President to our Homeowners Association annual meeting.
So, the topic seems to be the roughly 900 billion dollar Economic Recovery Act, aka Stimulus.
For review, and my numbers are very approximate but useful for discussion.
When Obama took office the stock market had dropped from over 14,000 to 6500 and
we were losing 700,000 private sector jobs a MONTH.
The "Stimulus" bill was comprised of three parts:
1) TAX CUTS of some $300 billion dollars, pushed for but not voted for by the Repubs.
2) Direct aid to the 50 States, for lost tax revenue to maintain spending for teachers,
firemen, public employees, Medicare, and Medicaid.
3) Rebuilding the Nation's infrastructure (remember the I-35 bridge collapse), direct
"shovel ready" (already approved) projects that directly led to employment.
Now, ask any American and they are probably thankful the tax cuts in the bill, ask the
2 million (CBO estimate) people who's jobs were either created or saved.
BUT, the issue on this thread seems to be if Obama "promised" the stimulus would "work".
How do you define "work"? If tax cuts "work", then the bill "worked".
If Americans jobs were either saved or created (CBO estimate of 2 million), then it "worked".
Many Americans have money in stock funds, and those stock funds have had trillions
of dollars restored in lost value since the date of passing of the bill, March of 2008.
In fact the stock market has gone from 7000 to 12,500 since the bill was passed.
So, if one is a Republican and just cannot stand the very idea that government CAN
pass legislation that makes things better in the face of crisis, then there is NOTHING
that government can ever, ever do, and certainly not a "Democratic" Administration.
But, if one looks at the facts of tax cuts, rising stock market portfolio values, the
retaining and creation of millions of jobs that would have not otherwise been saved or
created, then any reasonable person would say a resounding yes, the "stimulus" did
indeed "work" to mitigate the very negative effects of the severe recession that started
in November of 2007.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 06:06pm PT
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Did those Bush "stimulus" to the big investment banks "work" as he "promised"?
YES, the majority shareholders were vastly, tremendously enriched personally.
Was the nation "saved" from going belly up by giving almost one trillion dollars to the banks?
The banks would certainly say it worked just fine, for them.
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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LIBERALS -- CHEW. ON. THIS.
FROM YOUR MAN -- BARRY HUSSEIN OBAMA.
THE DEBT IS MUCH LARGER NOW, BUT BARRY SAYS "NO PROBLEM!"
This is from a speech Obama made in 2006:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.
Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.
And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.
Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities.
Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:10pm PT
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HEY HEDGE BOY -- WHATYA THINK OF BARRY'S DIRE WARNING ABOUT U.S. DEBT BACK IN 2006?
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
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THE GLOBAL-WARMING-WEALTH-REDISTRIBUTION SCAM IS STILL UNRAVELING!
Former “alarmist” scientist says Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) based in false science
"At this point, official “climate science” stopped being a science. In science, empirical evidence always trumps theory, no matter how much you are in love with the theory. If theory and evidence disagree, real scientists scrap the theory. But official climate science ignored the crucial weather balloon evidence, and other subsequent evidence that backs it up, and instead clung to their carbon dioxide theory — that just happens to keep them in well-paying jobs with lavish research grants, and gives great political power to their government masters.
And why will it continue? Again, follow the money:
We are now at an extraordinary juncture. Official climate science, which is funded and directed entirely by government, promotes a theory that is based on a guess about moist air that is now a known falsehood. Governments gleefully accept their advice, because the only ways to curb emissions are to impose taxes and extend government control over all energy use. And to curb emissions on a world scale might even lead to world government — how exciting for the political class!"
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
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Hedge -- the hatred you have for conservatives is pretty sad. What it must be like for you each day to wake up with that much anger inside you. Geez man -- breathe.
But then, I guess when you are a liberal like yourself, and you get to watch Hopey's socialist/wealth-redistribution agenda crash on the cliffs of reality, it must get pretty depressing.
And BTW -- most conservatives cannot stand the GOP. The GOP is weak and makes far too many "bipartisan" deals with libs. The TEA party is flushing these faux-conservatives out one by one.
Know your facts.
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:21pm PT
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This Hedge dude is going to blow a gasket
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shut up and pull
climber
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May 15, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
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AGW -- the scam just keeps being exposed for what it is -- a massive fraud designed to allow the left to take over the economy, and direct its wealth to their favored groups.
David Evans is a scientist. He has also worked in the heart of the AGW machine. He consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. He has six university degrees, including a PhD in Electrical Engineering from Stanford University. The other day he said:
"The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro-thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic."
And with that he begins a demolition of the theories, premises and methods by which the AGW scare has been foisted on the public.
The politics:
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s. But the gravy train was too big, with too many jobs, industries, trading profits, political careers, and the possibility of world government and total control riding on the outcome. So rather than admit they were wrong, the governments, and their tame climate scientists, now outrageously maintain the fiction that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant."
WHEN WILL AL GORE AND THE LEFT APOLOGIZE, AND PAY US BACK THE TRILLIONS IN WEALTH THEY DESTROYED?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 07:30pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 15, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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Nohea
Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
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May 15, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
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Political parties are like meetings in that.....
So now are the dems still saying their different? Have the repubs figured they are knott about small government? Party members....leave them...seek Liberty. A liberty that demicans and republicrats cannot imagine.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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May 15, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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Norton - Given that this thread began after the the Republican Wrong thread.... You should know.... Looking at the pre-Obama world and looking at the post-Obama world will get the world nowhere in showing any republicans why they are wrong about almost everything...
But good luck...
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apogee
climber
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May 16, 2011 - 02:29am PT
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Democratic PACs Aim To Even The Score
May 15, 2011
"Crossroads GPS is responsible for the content of this advertising." That line, tacked on to the end of political ads airing in New York's 26th District, is easy enough to miss. It signals the ad as one of many paid for by the conservative political action committee.
The group, founded by Karl Rove, has been pouring big money into television ads for the Republican candidate in the special election — about $350,000 for a week of airtime. It's a tactic that worked to the advantage of Republicans in 2010. Now Democrats want to get in on the action.
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/15/136309140/democratic-cpacs-aim-to-even-the-score
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, eh, Dems? So much for the post-Citizens United high road...
Not sure how I feel about this. The pragmatic side says hell yes, whatever it takes to beat back those Repugs. The other side of me just feels dirty.
Somehow, I don't think Repugs have this kind of duality in their thinking.
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