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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Sorry for asking for discourse. I think there is common ground here, even politically. I will shut up and join the "limp-wristed d#@&%e-pack," cease to acknowledge any common values 'twixt you and me.
Just kidding. Next time I drive down in elevation through that big wide free space you have in NV, I will try to buy you a beer. Honest. You know the place better'n me, though we're apparently at odds here.
and Johnbizzle:
so that works out to 1000acre/3 year/cow = 333 acre/cow. which is not a small amount of land, even ignoring water and what actually grows out there. [water is a pretty big thing to ignore]
where were you around cattle? in the west?
And also, this is a problem with the management system but not your side or mine: how does BLM account for annual irregularity of precip/lushness of range? Probably not well enough, just guessing.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Ron? Re your post:
Heres an idea Fritzy GO FIND IT yur own dam seff eh?
YOu ST libs are good at slamming someone then wanting more from them .. Its a tired routine. Don't trust me so DUITYERSELF....
Happy Easter! Hope you find some of the eggs you hid (if you remember to get eggs & hide them.)
Watch out for the bunny.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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^ aww Fritz, that makes me laugh, but damn. I never seen you sink to my level of assault.
[Are you Banksy?]
TBC
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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One time (ok more than once), I drank cold clear tadpole and algae-healthy water from a "range-improvement stock tank". It made my day (possibly my life).
Though, weren't cattle about, no need for improvement to keep water cleaner or better flowing.
Edit: Cpt. Fritz, I do believe that it is Bundizzle there in the photo, with concrete built from free public water and cement trucked in over the desert. All of it holding back clean water piped from dry desert. Cool! Did the BLM destroy this'n? Whereabout?
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WBraun
climber
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Next time I drive down in elevation through that big wide free space you have in NV, I will try to buy you a beer.
All right !!!
You the man brave cowboy!
Thanks for being cool ....
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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no need for friction 'tween me and the locals, brahj
;-)
Truly, I know little directly here. I do love the place though, and see both the need to manage the public good against the individual producer and the rational self-interest driving the people that scratch a living outta the place.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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BC, 25 acres per cow/calf pair. I didn't say at 1000 acre. Doesn't matter how many acres, still guessing 25 acre per pair.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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^ for a couple weeks/3 years, right?
25 acre/2 wk for three years works out to 1950 acres per cow-calf pair (does this account for water or increasing calf size?). what is the re-grow time/25-acres?
I've walked these lands and see very little edible goods, even springtime. What do they eat? What do the native competitors eat? Cow-sh#t?
So yes this is a ton of land. What were we arguing about? Oh yeah, I think water, and the location and treatment of such vital public goods....
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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yeah those desert bears, Ron. I've been pleasantly surprised to find raspberries and good shaded springs at ~4500', with much fresh bear-sign in the canyon bottoms of my home. those desert bears will leave the lush-canyons too and cross out over the broad dry, berry-less shale slopes. Hope nobody has a high-power rifle and too much beer on board...sigh.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Im in South Dakota just a bit east of New Castle WY.
Of course the pairs would have to be run off to fresher pastures after a couple weeks and might take 3 years to come back, depending on how much was eaton off and weather. So yes, it would take a lot of land to raise a herd there. 25 acre per pair per 3 years was just for that pictured, other lands withstanding. How much land he needs would also depend on how much feed he's given them. I can see why he's running cattle on public land, I'd bet his land ain't enough. Water would be hard one.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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so what do you make of the lack of conclusive public proof of BLM insanity, as alleged, Johnb?
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Let me repeat this, that without the ranches of Nevada our wildlife wouldn't be where it is today in this state. They service all the wildlife as well as those cows and have for a hundred years and more. I fish in ponds and small dams constructed by these ranches for free, and some of them did the original stocking. Not a bad deal eh
Just to throw in my $0.02 worth and, I've been around stock most of my life so I picked up a few things from my dad who raised us kids in the sh#t and muck...
I don't think anyone is arguing with the statement above there Ron, rather from what I've read the beef (wink wink) is with Mr. Bundy and his 'methods' along with those gun toting knuckleheads.
Carry on
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Bundy seems to 'have gotten away with' it
Phil Taylor, E&E reporter
Greenwire: Friday, April 3, 2015
Life has returned to normal at the Bureau of Land Management's Gold Butte area in southern Nevada.
Visitors are car camping, searching for prehistoric rock art and admiring the Mojave Desert's multi-hued landscapes -- and Cliven Bundy continues to graze his cows.
Sunday will mark one year since the BLM and National Park Service began wrangling Bundy's bovines from Gold Butte's expanse of Joshua trees and creosote bushes, where the animals had been grazing illegally for more than two decades.
more below:
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060016250
http://www.hcn.org/articles/cliven-bundy-rancher-nevada-scofflaw?utm_source=wcn1&utm_medium=email
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Hashbro: Thanks for the link to that story. It is very interesting reading.
Back up-thread I asserted that the government land that Bundy's cows are abusing would likely graze 1 cow per thousand acres. (That's really, really schisty grazing land.)
Per Hashbro's linked article, I admit I was rong:
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060016250
BLM a year ago estimated there were 908 illegal cattle spread across 1,200 square miles, including in Gold Butte and NPS's adjacent Lake Mead National Recreation Area.
which works out to one cow for every 846 acres.
There is also another link in the above article to a story in the LA Times about Bundy's brownshirts descending on Carson City to promote legislation to steal U.S. Government land in Nevada. It is also interesting reading.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-cliven-bundy-rally-20150401-story.html
The above article explains the origin of this counter-protest sign too.
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couchmaster
climber
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Damn? You guys are still going on about this? Here's an idea for us. Instead of retyping all of our early assertions where we all are right (at least where each and every poster all think they are right) and getting all butt hurt at the responses we illicit: lets just go back in time on the thread and just copy/paste our earlier posts. See how long we can make a near meaningless thread stay on top. No need to continually retype the same things over and over, just copy/paste.
I have faith Ron can hang in there, and maybe a*swipes like Crankster who seems to have unlimited time and never has climbed so he's stuck in his moms basement it appears, but some of you will have to really bear down and stick this out for the long haul.
Go back and copy your old posts, then paste to bump - I'm right and you're wrong will be the theme. Or keep spelling it your instead of the old traditionally correct version: you're.
copy/paste -I'm right and your wrong.
copy/paste - No your wrong and I'm right.
copy/paste -I'm right and your wrong.
copy/paste -No your wrong and I'm right.
copy/paste -I'm right and your Ron.
copy/paste -your not ron your a moRON
etc etc. ad infinity and beyond
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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What Couch said ^^^^^^^^^^
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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or we could all chip in for Crankster and Werner to meet up and share tea.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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What if Werner and the Crankster are really the same guy? :)
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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I am not in favor of Clive but I find our own federal govt more dangerous and appalling than any rancher. I'd bet a lot of people find themselves fighting for this guy not because of his beliefs but merely since he faces a common enemy.
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