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monolith

climber
state of being
May 24, 2016 - 09:50am PT
The battleground states are irrelevant if there isn't a battle which there won't be if you can't carry the south.

Huh? The Dems don't 'carry' the south, not in a long time. They can only hope to pick off a few southern battleground states.

Sanders beats Clinton vs Trump in North Carolina and Georgia and even with her in Florida.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 24, 2016 - 10:16am PT
monolith posted
Sanders beats Clinton vs Trump in North Carolina and Georgia and even with her in Florida.

Sorry, are you posting from the future? Do you already have October's polls?
monolith

climber
state of being
May 24, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Huh?

The polls I refer to are compiled in real clear politics.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 24, 2016 - 11:00am PT
If there was ever a need for a third party it is now.


Yea, most people have long forgotten Ross Perot. Could work!
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
May 24, 2016 - 11:41am PT
Radical, sounds like we have to get you back to California to leach some of the Texas out of you!


Re: Obamacare... my take is they saw they were getting screwed by Republican obstruction to get single-payer healthcare, so they pinched their nose and took the sh!tty deal to get something passed and have some basis to claim an incremental victory. The more important achievement was to create a national expectation of universal healthcare. Repubs who support the insurance industry cheered because they made it illegal to not give money to insurance companies :)

So it's a pretty skewed view to claim that the debacle is the fault of Obama. The gamble is that we'll fix the debacle by going to single payer and destroying the private medical insurance industry, rather than by completely repealing the idea of baseline healthcare for all. Still wiggle room to work out as a nation what "baseline" means. If we can get nation-wide bargaining power for pharmaceuticals and other medical services, we'll have more money to define a higher level of "baseline".



It seems that the national debate has abandoned the issues-based dialog that characterized the early part of Bernie's rise. Now we have some wave of disillusionment where it's all about Bernie's personal shortcomings. Everybody has shortcomings. Bernie was the ONLY candidate who came to the table forcing real dialog about real solutions to our sh!t. But we as a society are too jaded (and maybe too fat/lazy/comfortable) to accept responsibility for changing.

Perhaps the only thing I would fault Bernie for, but ultimately he still made the right call because on average people are stupid and have short attention spans, is that his speeches focused on the high level issues so much that it became repetitive talking points. He was too afraid to get lost in details and have people pick apart his plans, so he stuck with the general view to build support. Never mind that he still touched on real problems and offered a real vision for how to solve them better than other candidates, but somehow he was held to a higher standard in terms of delivering a fully functional worked out solution. Anybody can destroy something. Few can build.

Maybe in the cycle of our national decline it's still too early, and more people need to suffer at a deeper level before the same ideas he raised now will be embraced by more people. In the mean time the Supreme Court is important, as is the the current and next mid-term election for Congressional seats.


Edit: Can't find youtube link but here's a funny SNL skit I remember from the Perot days:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/powerful-ross-perot/n10274
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Radical, In the immortal words of Pyro:

Welcome to the LIBERLAND sh#t show drum circle..
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 24, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
While attending the University of Chicago, Sanders joined the Young People’s Socialist League, the youth wing of the Socialist Party USA. He also organized for a communist front, the United Packinghouse Workers Union, which at the time was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

After graduating with a political science degree, Sanders moved to Vermont, where he headed the American People’s History Society, an organ for Marxist propaganda. There, he produced a glowing documentary on the life of socialist revolutionary Eugene Debs, who was jailed for espionage during the Red Scare and hailed by the Bolsheviks as “America’s greatest Marxist.”

Dude, that's why I'm voting for him.

BTW, Debs was not jailed for espionage. (Right wingers seem to have problems with truth.) He was jailed for making a speech in Canton, Ohio, that was in part against The Great War, that was not approved by the Wilson Administration. For that he was jailed for sedition under the Espionage Act of 1917.

Comrades, friends and fellow-workers, for this very cordial greeting, this very hearty reception, I thank you all with the fullest appreciation of your interest in and your devotion to the cause for which I am to speak to you this afternoon.

To speak for labor; to plead the cause of the men and women and children who toil; to serve the working class, has always been to me a high privilege; a duty of love.

I have just returned from a visit over yonder, where three of our most loyal comrades are paying the penalty for their devotion to the cause of the working class. They have come to realize, as many of us have, that it is extremely dangerous to exercise the constitutional right of free speech in a country fighting to make democracy safe in the world.

I realize that, in speaking to you this afternoon, there are certain limitations placed upon the right of free speech. I must be exceedingly careful, prudent, as to what I say, and even more careful and prudent as to how I say it. I may not be able to say all I think; but I am not going to say anything that I do not think. I would rather a thousand times be a free soul in jail than to be a sycophant and coward in the streets. They may put those boys in jail—and some of the rest of us in jail—but they can not put the Socialist movement in jail. Those prison bars separate their bodies from ours, but their souls are here this afternoon. They are simply paying the penalty that all men have paid in all the ages of history for standing erect, and for seeking to pave the way to better conditions for mankind.

If it had not been for the men and women who, in the past, have had the moral courage to go to jail, we would still be in the jungles.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 24, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
I'm quite certain that the "interviews" of the Bernie Sanders supporters about the Bernie and Bernie ticket were heavily edited, but Colbert and Jon Stewart are also on to something. I have been interviewed on camera many times when I was actively practicing law, and I found it very different from any other public speaking.

The main difference is knowing that all a TV news program will show - at most - is a short sound bite. Trying to explain a complex reorganization in terms a layman (or, for that matter, a reporter) will understand presents enough problems, but trying to do so in 15 seconds can really paralyze one's mind.

I found it very different from either a live interview (on radio or TV - I've done both), or even speaking to a newspaper reporter. I suspect most of the interviewees on any of these clips have almost no experience speaking in public, and even then most probably knew that Bernie Madoff was in jail, and just laughed. I can forgive those that gave the responses the producer of the clips chose to show us. I suspect in a different context, almost all would not have responded so vacuously.

John
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 24, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
If there was ever a need for a third party it is now.

I thought Trump was the third party.

It remains to be seen if a Republican runs...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
"I've been mind f*#ked that people have taken Trump seriously. His ridiculous rhetoric and promises are right out of a fairy tale book. "


Works that way, too!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
It's clear from his toned-down rhetoric Bernie's trying to land the plane, not crash it. His legacy, as well as his movement, depend on it. I do not think he will be part of a 3rd party; rather, he's looking to make the Dem Party more progressive.

I expect he'll use his considerable leverage to gain influence on the platform - like this:
http://www.thenation.com/article/sanders-picks-and-allies-could-write-a-boldly-progressive-platform/

I do think he'll work to ensure the July convention is peaceful. I expect him to be given a prominent speaking night where he'll make the case for Hillary over Donald in passionate terms.

Progressives need to come together to defeat Donald Trump, the sooner the better.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 24, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Like PT Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute".

Trump is channeling him big time.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 24, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Like PT Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute".

Trump is channeling him big time.

I know I've posted this before on this thread (or maybe on the "Ready for Doanld?" one, or both), but this campaign seems to be a combination of P.T. Barnum (as quoted above) and H. L. Mencken ("No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.")

Given the questionable sources from which most Americans seem to get their information, I don't see any relief from the above in the foreseeable future. The issues facing the United States don't lend themselves to intelligent discussions in small sound bites, and contemporary journalism seems incapable of presenting (or, at times, understanding) those issues cogently. In short,

We're gunna die!

John
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
There's a reason ratings are high for "The Bachelor" and low for "The Great Moments in Science Hour" (hey, I'd watch that if it was real). American's attention spans seem to be in decline. >understatement

What's frightening is the election might turn on 3 presidential debates in Sept/Oct.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 24, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
I see Hillery is chickening out of the debate with Bernie in California.

Very Presidential of her....got it all cinched now.

I hope the FBI gives her lawyer a call in a few days with the bad news.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
The last thing we need in CA is another debate. I think there's been 127. We know Bernie doesn't have a Super Pac.
Sparky

Trad climber
vagabond movin on
May 24, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 24, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
That unrealistic fruit cake needs to step to the side before he really fuks things up...

You're right. The last thing we need is somebody who truly cares about all of America.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
Jim Jones really cared about the colony also. Bernie Sanders would love America to death.
Norton

Social climber
May 24, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
vote for Trump, b!tch
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