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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
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Reid might not go to jail, but someone sure beat his ass.
He didn't have any exercise accident.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Greyrock, CO
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:16pm PT
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yeah the exercise accident thing did seem odd, even on the radio. anyone spare a little gossip? I know you gots it. Was it the Chinese? Bill Clinton? Bill Clinton AND the Chinese?
Still though, C. Bundy is a moooooch. The best way to respond to the alleged (and not totally improbable) improprieties on the part of the BLM/legislature/gub'mint generally:
cover your ass by staying right there in the straight and narrow and paying proper taxes, etc. I mean, did he pay anything?
And yeah, it is sad to see welfare beef/"local" [read: federally-subsidized] ranchers disappear from NV, but, well, follerin' the rules might be advised if'n the man has his sights set on you. this is not calculus III, here.
And yes, I will re-state, not a big fan of cow-trodden mud-and-sh#t-filled range "improvements."
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
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According to the National Cattleman's Beef Association, Nevada is a puny beef producer, with a whopping 1/2 of 1% of the National beef production.
Why? There isn't much water.
I'm with Ed Abbey. Guy's like Bundy overgraze the land and pretty much destroy it. Bundy can't even make a living off his land. He has ranched for free on from (Bundy's Wiki Page):
On March 27, 2014, 145,604 acres of federal land in Clark County were temporarily closed for the "capture, impound, and removal of trespass cattle".[5] BLM officials and law enforcement rangers began a roundup of such livestock on April 5, and an arrest was made the next day. On April 12, a group of protesters, some of them armed,[6] advanced on what the BLM described as a "cattle gather."[7] Sheriff Doug Gillespie negotiated with Bundy and newly confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze,[8] who elected to release the cattle and de-escalate the situation.[
The legal basics:
The ongoing dispute began in 1993, when, in protest against changes to grazing rules,[2] Bundy declined to renew his permit for cattle grazing on BLM-administered lands near Bunkerville, Nevada.[3] In 1998, Bundy was prohibited by the United States District Court for the District of Nevada from grazing his cattle on an area of land later called the Bunkerville Allotment.[3] In July 2013, the BLM complaint was supplemented when federal judge Lloyd D. George ordered that Bundy refrain from trespassing on federally administered land in the Gold Butte area of Clark County
Bundy had zero right to use that land from any conceivable legal standpoint. Grazing allotments are common in the west and ranchers pay the grazing fees, which aren't excessive.
This whole deal boils down to Bundy's crazy interpretation of the law, by believing that the county sheriff is the only one with any legal power.
Have you guys seen that country? Dry as a bone.
Also from the beef producer's website:
•More than 50 percent of the total value of U.S. sales of cattle and calves comes from the top 5 states:
1. Texas
2. Nebraska
3. Kansas
4. California
5. Oklahoma
There is nothing here but a bunch of militia idiots who don't recognize basic law.
As for Ron's theories that Bundy was ejected from his land for some nefarious reason, Nevada is covered with equally dry scrub land for as far as the eye can see.
There is one thing that I think would be a good idea: In some of the western states where private land is a rarity, the federal government should sell some of it to private owners, but not in an open bid setting. If you did that, the big rich landowners would just get bigger and richer.
It wouldn't have to be very much. There is a ton of BLM land that could be let go in 160 acre allotments, similar to the patents of the past.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Greyrock, CO
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:31pm PT
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Those island ranges are special spots, Ron. Definitely. There is magic out there, hidden from the drive-through terrain along most interstates.
All the more reason to keep cattle out of those rarified and better-vegetated spots.
And the price of beef? Well, some of us don't/can't/won't buy steak to begin with.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
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a billion taxpayer dollars to welfare cowboys
doesn't sound like fiscal conservatism...more like socialism for the old boys!
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Study: Livestock Grazing on Public Lands Cost Taxpayers $1 Billion Over Past Decade
WASHINGTON— A new analysis finds U.S. taxpayers have lost more than $1 billion over the past decade on a program that allows cows and sheep to graze on public land. Last year alone taxpayers lost $125 million in grazing subsidies on federal land. Had the federal government charged fees similar to grazing rates on non-irrigated private land, the program would have made $261 million a year on average rather than operate at a staggering loss, the analysis finds.
Costs and Consequences
The study, Costs and Consequences: The Real Price of Livestock Grazing on America’s Public Lands, comes as the Obama administration prepares Friday to announce grazing fees for the upcoming year on 229 million acres of publicly owned land, most of it in the West. The report was prepared by economists on behalf of the Center for Biological Diversity.
“Public lands grazing has been a billion-dollar boondoggle over the past decade and hasn’t come close to paying for itself,” said Randi Spivak with the Center for Biological Diversity. “Livestock owners pay less to graze their animals on publically owned land in 2014 than they did in 1981. Today the monthly cost of allowing a cow and calf to graze on federal lands is about the equivalent of a can of dog food. This damaging and expensive grazing program has been broken for years and needs to be fixed. Taxpayers, and the land we all own, deserve better.”
The gap between federal grazing fees and non-irrigated private land rates has widened considerably, according to the study. Bureau of Land Management and U.S. Forest Service grazing fees are $1.35 per month per animal unit (a cow and a calf), just 6.72 percent of what it would cost to graze livestock on private grazing lands. This is a marked decline from the federal fee being 23.79 percent of non-irrigated private rates when the federal fee first went into effect in 1981.
“The fees for grazing on U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management lands needs to be seriously reevaluated,” said Christine Glaser, an economist with GreenFire Consulting and author of the report. “Over the past three decades the fee formula has clearly decoupled public grazing fees from the development of private, state and other federal agencies grazing fees. Bottom line, this formula shields public lands ranchers from grazing rate increases that every other livestock operator has to live with.”
There are about 800,000 livestock operators and cattle producers in the United States. Of those, fewer than 21,000 — or 2.7 percent of the nation’s total livestock operators — benefit from the Forest Service and BLM grazing programs in the West.
“The Public Rangeland Improvement Act subsidizes a small segment of the livestock industry,” said the study’s co-author and former Interior Department economist Chuck Romaniello. “There needs to be a discussion as to what the appropriate level of that subsidy should be, including if there should be a subsidy at all.”
The federal subsidy of the grazing program goes beyond the direct costs and fees. There are vast indirect costs to grazing on federal lands, including the government killing of native carnivores perceived as threats to livestock, wildfire suppression caused by invasive cheat grass facilitated by cattle grazing, and expenditure of U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service funds from protecting other species threatened by livestock grazing. “The full cost of the federal grazing program is long overdue for a complete analysis,” the study said.
The Center for Biological Diversity is a national, nonprofit conservation organization with more than 800,000 members and online activists dedicated to the protection of endangered species and wild places.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Mar 31, 2015 - 09:20pm PT
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Dirty Harry Ried NOT running again.................. Don't think this is any co-incidence either.
Wow, I agree with Ron, there isn't any coincidence with Ried retiring.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 31, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
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There is nobody with the name Harry Ried in Congress, nor has there ever been.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Greyrock, CO
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Mar 31, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
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^shoot JD, you've got the spell-check in you too? A curse I say.
So what happened with the "exerfise assident"?
Can I get a little speculation here?
Since it is clear that....___
Nevermind, what's the scuttle on H. Reid's facial wounds? Stairmaster + stairs? Pull-ups+punches...? Hook a brother up with the details!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:01pm PT
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You forgot about the multiple Fed agencies swat assault on Chicken Alaska Ron. Talk about comedy of corruption, that one took the cake.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
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And yes, as person perhaps more familiar with the Cyanide Leach Process gold extraction reactions than most, I will happily assert that arming federal agents in Alaska to enforce regulation of such, as pertaining to water quality, is justified.
Are you familiar with what Galactic Enterprises did to the Alamosa and Rio Grande Rivers with irresponsible cyanide leach?
I am a gold-interested bastard, if I may say so.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
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^^^^^^
Yes, we should all do whatever we want and to hell with anyone else or our what our actions may cause.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
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We definitely should not be investing federal dollars to enforce laws upon gold-mining operations that also happen to sell/do drugs. NOT!
Crappy example of overzealous enforcement here, fella. [certainly it sounds like the raid was poorly executed, but it's not like it was not a complex situation].
I give the feds a B- and the gold-fondlers a D.
What was the argument against water quality inspection? "It's Alaska, there's f*#k-tons of water"?
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
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EDIT: ^Yes the militarization of the po-po is terrifying. If we could somehow get you cut loose of Bundy and join with my friends in the Telluride Black Panthers section, we'd be able to make some change. :-)
Where did that information on the supposed bungled EPA raid, including quotations, come from?
Because I have stood in those shoes and know that mining activity attracts the law. Because I have stood in those shoes and recognize that people will be armed in bear country, and especially if touchy issues like the defense of small gold claims are involved.
Seems like they (the miners) had their panties in a britch over what shoulda been an easy hoop to jump through. It's not exactly like those types are easy to sneak up on. Surely they were aware of the arriving armed Feds prior to their arrival.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 10:44pm PT
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now what of the Harry Reid mafia-beat up possibility??!!! Please hook it up! You assert it was a mafia smack-down and I must get the dirrt! I could get famous on TMZ!
EDIT: I am wondering about the specific source of the quoted material above about the Chicken, AK story.
And what of the friend-of-the hippy-friend's neighbor that had their dogs shot down in their home, their child in the midst, wife running to save child across the line of fire? What of the greater waste of tax dollars and human life in the war on pot?
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 11:24pm PT
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So it wasn't the Chinese, damn.
But I thought this might be the grassroots rebellion thread. 'parrently this is just the ___ thread.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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Mar 31, 2015 - 11:33pm PT
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Re: Chicken.
the first 20 google results show a fairly clear distribution of the most strongly phrased articles (2) linked at two fairly obviously insane/corporate funded websites. just pointing out the CORPORATE funding of your side of the issue.
So if it was so bad to get the water sampled, or they were so threatened, why didn't they sue, or as Bundy and co supposedly did, "stand up like men" and lord over, by threat, the federal law-man? perhaps because it was a legal action?
And yes, we can all do a little googling - look up cyanide alamosa galactic
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Steve's sister
Social climber
Las Vegas, NV
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Ron,serious question. What water improvements were destroyed and where were they? My husband has been Quail hunting in and around the Gold Butte area since 1972 and cannot remember ever seeing any destroyed water improvements.
I've been going since 1989 and have not seen any signs of this either. I am not saying this did not happen, it is a huge area, but we have covered a lot of ground over the decades. Just curious and can't think of a resource where I could find this information. Thanks in advance for any info you may share.
We love Gold Butte, the subtleties of the desert, the Native American antiquities, rock art, and the tenacity to survive out there. Amazing!
Lisa
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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I don't recall any mention on this thread about good things the BLM is doing.
This Idaho Statesman article talks at length about new BLM fire fighting polices designed to save some of remaining sagebrush habitat & maybe keep sage grouse from being listed as an endangered species.
Well down the article, it also talks about ranchers working with the BLM in fire fighting efforts.
Imagine that------ the government & ranchers working together.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/04/01/3728621/saving-prime-sage-grouse-habitat.html
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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So has the FBI been after the Bundy supporters who pointed their sniper rifles at the BLM? A lot of them are easily recognizable from tapes available on youtube.
They are getting off easy. Pointing and holding the crosshairs over the chest of a federal officer is no small matter.
Maybe Obama decided to let them go back to marching and shooting at cans.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Lost Park
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What water improvements were destroyed and where were they?
I heard that there was some kind of proof of this, somewhere.
I guess knott.
cattle that they kilt
Ron, to be a complete dick, care to substantiate this?
^^Seems like this would be easy to document and substantiate in the public arena...and yet it has not happened.
Yes, f*#k the man and all that jazz, but I pay my taxes complete and I don't let my animals piss or sh#t in the water.
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