Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 06:29am PT
|
healyje, that is the best synopsis of the current situation I've read anywhere. Bravo.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 06:54am PT
|
John wrote: When you ask for specifics of the alleged betrayal, however, it often comes down to little more than their failure to get all that the angry ones wanted.
I think you're missing the point of the discontent. The standard of living for the majority of Americans has been steadily dropping for 40 years now. At the same time, the top bracket has been accumulating greater and greater portions of the wealth created in this country.
A lot of people have been successfully mesmerized by pointless social causes and race baiting. But even they are now seeing that their kids are not going to have it as good as their grandparents did. The kids are seeing that now, too.
The pendulum is starting to swing back.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 07:12am PT
|
Healyje, you prove part of my point. Things have gotten so nasty that people who are basically on the same "side" think its will help if they insult their own people.
I'm not a moron. I fully understand that the president can't do all of these things. Thats why I will most likely hold my breathe and vote for Hillary. but at what point do we as a people revolt and say.. enough is enough?. Do we ever do that? Or do the disenfranchised just hold their breathe and lives lives of quiet desperation?
From my position, I see too many people like you who already have yours, so you don't give that big of a sh#t about those who don't, and so you tell us to shut up and vote for whatever the powers that be send down the pike.
And I have been saying for some time that people had better be paying attention, because the dissatisfaction is growing and thats going to lead to the mess we might possibly face now, which is a split vote in the Dems and someone like Trump being elected. And I definitely do not want that.
but at this point I see no way for the status quo to continue. The house is controlled by republicans and seems likely to continue to be, so even if we get a liberal president, then we still get messes like Obamacare. And we solve none of the other issues. the GOP aren't going to just die. Thats a fallacy. And the Dems are going through a bigger shift then people like Crankster, who just want people to shut up and vote for Hillary aren't paying attention. He told me yesterday that he would listen to me. Now today he agrees with You and insults everyone who doesn't want Hillary. So just how does that encourage me or anyone like me to vote for Hillary or ever again express our disillusionment with the system? Or express what we are hoping to head towards if you just resort to petty insults?
Right now I just want to say.. "piss off".. but I respect you. So I won't But I'm certainly tempted to.
And if I or others like me do piss off and don't vote, then how does that make you the "smart" guy? Since you would in effect be part of the reason that I don't vote.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 07:58am PT
|
even our homeless people are rich by standards elsewhere.
so basically... too bad for you.
Thats the attitude that will cause people to not vote for your party. Its the attitude that gets us Obamacare.. with all of its messes. Its the attitude that gets us Trump..
Because if this is as good as it gets.. well.
I didn't see that many liberals out marching against the war in Iraq. oh.. they were against the war, but they wouldn't actually do anything about it. 1 million people? chump change. Should have been 20 million, if people really believed that it was a bad thing.
Let's say... 30% unemployment, global war, famine, the looting of the banks... that sort of sh#t.
If this is what it takes for real change.. then LOL.. you are making the case for voting for Donald Trump because that is exactly where he will head us. Bush almost gave us that. But not quite.. so the liberals sat on their ass and we went to war in Iraq because things weren't "that bad". And the banks robbed us blind.
why do you think our military has one of the highest suicide rates? If our homeless have it so great. Sh#t,. those f*#kers should be grateful to have it as good as they got it. uh huh..
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 08:11am PT
|
you are looking at it in the wrong way. they don't have to force a fight. All that they have to do is not vote for Hillary.. America gets Trump and off we go.
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 09:10am PT
|
Moose, you're a Kirkwood skier; therefore you are very smart. Unless you vote for Jill Stein, of course.
You know what you have to do. I'll supply the nose plugs.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 09:11am PT
|
good morning Dingus, Moose, Crankster, and John !
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 09:26am PT
|
good morning Norton..welcome to the slugfest.
you're a Kirkwood skier; therefore you are very smart.
shoot.. is that all I have to do to be smart. I started skiing kirkwood in the 70s. I must be a friggen genius by now. I taught both my parents to ski at kirkwood.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 10:11am PT
|
Healyje, I think your perspective shows a lot of wisdom.
It's easier to stand up and make a grand gesture than to grind away for years in little steps toward an objective. And it's almost impossible to keep a critical mass of the public focused for that long (unless you develop a network of hate radio to indoctrinate people).
But the Supreme Court seat is a big deal with far reaching consequences. The way congress is blocking it now should be considered not just an impeachable offense but active treason. It's a slap against democracy and the continuity of our government.
, I don't hear any cries to fire the senior republicans in congress for blocking Supreme Court nomination process. That is a seriously egregious violation and we are taking it. How can this happen? It's a game of chicken- how far can democracy be bent before people take time off of work and pay for tickets to Washington to hunt down our elected officials and say WTF?
But part of the problem is we have enough people who advocate the republican values (homophobia, gun rights, no immigrants, no abortions) that a mass of people protesting the violation of democracy would be countered by a mass of other people supporting the republican agenda without consideration for the democratic process and the integrity of our government.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
|
Interesting read, titled: "Why Bernie is Going to Win". (Short version, he's honest and Hillary is dishonest and a liar #CrookedHillary)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-bernie-is-going-to-win_us_5734f8b0e4b0ed0ca07a83c6
"Bernie is going to win. The writing is on the wall that Hillary is most likely guilty of [at a minimum] unintentional espionage and probably much worse and it looks like an indictment at this point is imminent. There’s no doubt that the democratic establishment is also aware of this inevitability and is beginning to hedge their bets, albeit behind closed doors. It’s only a matter of time before the majority of the DNC begins to realize that Hillary is a liability to the party and once this tipping point occurs, establishment democrats will defect en masse like rats from a sinking ship. But that’s not why Bernie is going to win.
Superdelegates, which date back to centrist “Scoop” Jackson’s Coalition for a Democratic Majority in the early 1970s, were meant to be a safeguard mechanism and were installed after an extremely contentious Democratic Convention in 1980 between Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter. This heated contest split the democratic party and created a chasm between the two camps, quite probably cost the democrats the general election. “Scoop” was a conservative Democrat and the superdelegates function was to ensure the party had a viable candidate to compete against the republican nominee by steering the party away from progressive candidates and more towards moderates.
The true, original intention of superdelegates was to have safeguards in place to act in the best interest of the party and it’s becoming more and more clear that Hillary’s legal troubles are not going away. In the general election, Sanders crushes Trump in a head to head contest while Hillary struggles, especially in 3 key so-called battleground states. Ironically, the mechanism that Hillary attempted to manipulate to guarantee her nomination is ultimately going to be used to do what it was designed for, which is to do what is in the best interest of the party and nominate Sanders. But that’s not why Bernie is going to win.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are historically the two most disliked presumptive candidates for president in American History. It’s fair to say presumptive in Hillary’s case because the main stream press seems to have already begun their coronation of her. To understand why two of the most unpopular candidates have risen to the tops of their respective parties, it’s important to understand the Certainty Principle.
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle
Werner Heisenberg, one of the fathers of Modern Physics, is most well known for his Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, also called the Indeterminacy Principle. Without going too far down the rabbit hole that is Quantum Mechanics, what Heisenberg’s Principle says is that you can never simultaneously know both the position and momentum of a particle. In other words, as much as science is all about trying to know things for certain, what Heisenberg discovered is that at the end of the day you can’t ever know anything for certain.
Quantum Mechanics has turned out to be the most successful scientific theory ever in the history of science and by some estimates, accounts for one third of our global economy. Given this level of success, I suspect Heisenberg knew what he was talking about. More to the point, what the Heisenberg Uncertain Principle really says (and the way it plays out in our own lives) is that certainty is an illusion.
In truth, we have no idea what’s going to happen from one moment to the next but the human mind is very good at creating a composite image out of our sensory experiences and predicting what’s going to happen next. In order to make sense of a complicated environment, where certainty is actually just an illusion, we’ve created all kinds of mental constructs such as concepts, dogmas and philosophies to bind together our lives. All of these types of constructs are based on something called the Certainty Principle, which is the opposite of Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle.
The Certainty Principle says that the overwhelming majority people, when given a choice between selecting a certainty that is guaranteed to be accompanied with misery & pain versus choosing an uncertainty with a high likelihood of pleasure and satisfaction, will choose certainty every time.
Anywhere we see dogma in society, be it in religious institutions, orthodox science, in political parties or even in academia and some sports, we can see where people are organizationally selecting the illusion of certainty over the reality of uncertainty. It is exactly this aspect of human nature that politicians have learned to exploit for decades, if not centuries.
If you stop to watch Hillary and Trump as well as most politicians, what they are selling is certainty. Pandering, which is the art of campaigning to people by telling them what they want to hear, works because you are validating and reinforcing what it is that people already hold to be certain. This form of politics is an example of the Certainty Principle in action. Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS and MSNBC all understand this principle and if you look, you’ll notice that all of their newscasts are all based on this as well. There’s a interesting thing about certainty and and its counterpart, fear: certainty sells.
Fear feels so real, so certain to people, that it reinforces their misperceptions of reality and perpetuates their addiction to anxiety. That’s why there’s a catastrophic weather story leading off just about every national newscast along with with a forecast of how many tens of millions of people are threatened in the coming days. But fear is no more real than certainty, both are illusions. Who are the real terrorists, the suicide bomber who kills 10 people or the media outlets that loops images of the bombing 24/7, indelibly etching these horrific images into the collective psyches of tens of millions of viewers?
You may say that Donald Trump violates this Certainty Principle constantly, by being so unpredictable with what comes out of his mouth, but he’s actually been very consistent. In fact, all of his xenophobic, racist demagoguery panders directly to his supporter’s worldview, as does all of the rhetoric Hillary engages in. Both the Democratic and Republican parties alike are very much attached to their respective dogmas but conservatives, by their very nature, tend to want to maintain whatever it is they are certain is true. It’s only logical then that Trump is being accused of not being a true conservative but he’s actually executing the Republican’s own playbook to a tee by playing to his base’s innermost fears. He’s making a mockery of their use of hyperbole to get elected and in the process, exposing it for what it is.
Sanders’ Message Appeals to The Awakened
However, pandering doesn’t work on the kinds of people who support Bernie Sanders because more and more these days, people are waking up to the reality that the only thing we can be truly certain of is that there is no such thing as certainty. Change is inevitable and Bernie supporters are fearless. People are understanding that in the past, when we’ve sold our own personal truths to purchase someone else’s political rhetoric, the country and the world have suffered for it.
Centuries of pandering, gerrymandering, pork barreling, partisan politics and obstructionism has culminated in a situation where our planet’s health is suffering, people are hurting and our government is locked in perpetual gridlock. We’ve finally gotten to a tipping point where people are forced to embrace uncertainty rather than accept the a status quo that is taking us over a collective cliff. Whatever the DNC-RNC-MSM complex is selling, we’re no longer buying. Facebook and Twitter have supplanted MSM as the primary content aggregators of news and information that more people are using for making informed political decisions. Bernie is correct, this is a Political Revolution happening and it is about more than just his candidacy. This cultural and societal phenomena of change is what none of the pundits are understanding or acknowledging. These times they are a-changin.
This is the simple reason why Bernie is going to win. There is a mass awakening happening on the planet right now and enough people have become immune to the pandering and lies of politicians that we are no longer susceptible to their manipulations and deceit. This started off with the moevements of the 60s, morphed into the Occupy Movement and has spilled over into Bernie’s Campaign. Enough is enough.
In spite of all the voting irregularities, illegal activities, purging of databases, Main Stream Media’s blatant bias towards Hillary as the presumptive nominee, Bill Clinton campaigning at Massachusetts polling stations, an incredibly lopsided democratic apparatus and mass numbers of voters having their party affiliation switched, it looks like Bernie is still going to win the pledged delegate count. This is astonishing.
Bernie is going to win because the number of people willing to embrace the illusion of certainty is no longer the majority. You can see it on the faces of Bernie supporters at his rallies, you can see by the vast number of crowds at his speeches, you can feel it on social media, you can see him running the table for these last 10 contests (including New Jersey). You can see it in his campaign out-raising his opponents without being financed without super PACS and you can see it with both Trump and Clinton starting to take his potential nomination seriously. This is our time.
Bernies crowds look like no others
These are extremely exciting times, and what makes them exciting is the uncertainty that comes with them.
Frank Huguenard holds a degree in science from Purdue University and has spent decades in product development in Silicon Valley prior to embarking on a career in documentary film production, specializing in films bridging the gap between Science & Spirituality. He draws on his research in the fields of combination of psychology, physics, wisdom traditions, sociology and history."
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
|
Welcome to Fantasyland!!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
|
The Hillary fanboys have been so inculcated with daily media brainwashing that they've become stupid sterile robots ......
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
|
"Can't say I care, really. I don't have a party. The revolution people are going to have to step the f*#k up. Frankly I'm calling bullshit - they ain't got it in them.
DMT"
The acid test for this should have been the 2000 election, we failed.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
|
Can't say I care, really. -dmt
what else do you expect from a guy who proudly proclaims
he's got no beliefs... none... nada, zero, zilch.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
|
I just got this email:
Dear fellow MoveOn member,
I just got back home to Iowa from Washington, D.C., after participating in a powerful MoveOn delegation to meet with my senator, Chuck Grassley.
Turns out, as chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Grassley is the central force in the current Republican blockade of the Supreme Court. He's the guy whose mind we have to change in order to get hearings and a vote on President Obama's highly qualified nominee.
Five of us MoveOn members from Iowa met with Sen. Grassley—whom each of us used to support—to make sure he knew that the majority of Iowans wanted him to do his job by considering Judge Merrick Garland and to tell him we'd hold him accountable in November if he failed to act.1 (Check out photos and a video from our trip, below.)
My fellow delegates and I pulled out all the stops to reach Sen. Grassley, but he hasn't budged. That's why I'm asking for your help to ratchet up broad public pressure on Sen. Grassley, the national face of Republican Supreme Court obstruction.
Can you call Sen. Grassley today and ask him to heed the people of Iowa and the majority of Americans coast to coast—all of whom want him to do his job?
Here's where to call: (202) 224-3744
You can say, "Senator Grassley, I’m one of the majority of Americans who want you to hold a hearing and a vote on Supreme Court nominee Judge Merrick Garland.2 Please do your job, or I'll join MoveOn in helping make sure you lose it in November."
Please tell us about your call by clicking here.
MoveOn members have been waging an all-out, passionate campaign against Republican obstruction of the Supreme Court since Justice Scalia's death.
A few weeks ago we began focusing in on Sen. Grassley. Because, as chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he's the linchpin—the person responsible for calling a hearing and a vote on Judge Garland. As part of this new campaign, we created a video featuring former Grassley supporters like myself, unveiled a billboard in Des Moines, made more than 1,000 calls during the one-week May recess, and launched a high-powered social media campaign in Iowa and in Washington, D.C.
And, since Sen. Grassley and a handful of other obstructing Republicans are up for re-election in November, MoveOn began organizing former voters and volunteers like me who can no longer support Sen. Grassley, because he's playing politics with the Supreme Court.
Will you help us make sure Sen. Grassley knows that he needs to do his job now, or MoveOn members will team up to make sure he loses it come Election Day?
Here's where to call: (202) 224-3744
You can say, "Senator Grassley, I’m one of the majority of Americans who want you to hold a hearing and a vote on Supreme Court nominee Judge Merrick Garland.3 Please do your job, or I'll join MoveOn in helping make sure you lose it in November."
Please tell us about your call by clicking here.
I volunteered for Sen. Grassley before I was old enough to vote for him. As an Iowan, I feel ashamed that he's strayed so far from the Iowan values of honesty, decency, and respect for our democracy and the Constitution. Thanks so much for helping me hold the senator accountable by calling his office today.
And thanks for all you do.
—Jack L., Cedar Rapids, Iowa
P.S. Our friends at Americans United for Change, the Constitutional Responsibility Project, and We Need Nine were awesome partners in making our delegation happen. Check out a video that We Need Nine made of the trip, including footage of a special press conference we held with Senator Harry Reid.
P.P.S. Here are some great pictures. Meet the delegates (Ken B., Deb H., Dianne K., Vickie B., and me) staking out a Senate Judiciary Committee meeting before our meeting with Sen. Grassley
|
|
Norton
Social climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
|
NutsAgain, I like what Moveon.org is trying to accomplish...
but there is a black democrat in the White House and Grassley is a Republican
no way on earth would he allow President Obama to fill a SC seat
perhaps he is hoping for a Trump Presidency so Roe V Wade can be overturned
but perhaps the bigger mistake he is making is not assuming Hillary Clinton will be the next President and Mr. Garland could be looked back on as...damn we should have put him on the court
|
|
kief
Trad climber
east side
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
|
Facebook and Twitter have supplanted MSM as the primary content aggregators of news and information that more people are using for making informed political decisions.
Let's just say that the word "informed" adds a truly Orwellian ring to this sentence.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
May 20, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
|
Hillary will lose to Trump. Bernie would win.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!