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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 12:34pm PT
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healyje -- It absolutely couldn't be ....
Another absolute from you now. So you are making authority statement also.
So which will be true and accurate?
The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence.
This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air [prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana], is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." (Mund. 3.1.9)
The hatha-yoga system is meant for controlling the five kinds of air encircling the pure soul by different kinds of sitting postures not for any material profit, but for liberation of the minute soul from the entanglement of the material atmosphere.
So the constitution of the atomic soul is admitted in all Vedic literature's, and it is also actually felt in the practical experience of any sane man.
The influence of the atomic soul can be spread all over a particular body.
According to the Mundaka Upanisad, this atomic soul is situated in the heart of every living entity, and because the measurement of the atomic soul is beyond the power of appreciation of the material scientists, some of them assert foolishly that there is no soul.
The individual atomic soul is definitely there in the heart along with the Supersoul, and thus all the energies of bodily movement are emanating from this part of the body.
The corpuscles which carry the oxygen from the lungs gather energy from the soul. When the soul passes away from this position, activity of the blood, generating fusion, ceases.
Medical science accepts the importance of the red corpuscles, but it cannot ascertain that the source of the energy is the soul. Medical science, however, does admit that the heart is the seat of all energies of the body.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 22, 2009 - 01:22pm PT
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The Crucifixion
Matthew 27:32-54, As they went out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. They compelled this man to carry his cross. And when they came to a place called Golgotha (which means Place of a Skull), they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall, but when he tasted it, he would not drink it. And when they had crucified him, *they divided his garments among them by casting lots*. Then they sat down and kept watch over him there. And over his head they put the charge against him, which read, “This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.” Then two robbers were crucified with him, one on the right and one on the left. And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads and saying, “You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross.” So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, mocked him, saying, “He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. *He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him*. For he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.
The Death of Jesus
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, *“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”* And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, “This man is calling Elijah.” And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. But the others said, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him.” And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
The Death of Jesus
John 19:28-37, After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), *“I thirst.”* A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Jesus' Side Is Pierced
Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: *“Not one of his bones will be broken.” And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.*”
*<((:-) Sorry cintune, better?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 22, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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For those of you interested in brain research the New York Times has just posted this article on willing your brain (mystical or otherwise), to science.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/health/22brain.html?hpw
I have several times explained to my Tibetan friends that the American form of Tibetan sky burials where the dead are cut up and fed to birds as their last charity, is the act of organ donation.
Meanwhile I was interested to note that Einstein's brain was 15% larger in the parietal area. Interestingly, that's where charismatics' brains light up when they speak in tongues, and also the region thought to be responsible for out of body sensations. There's clearly much to be learned still.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Dec 22, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
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Hey Gobee, if you'd resize your Christmas carols to 900 pixels wide you'd be doing us poor sinners a big favor.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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I have a huge screen and can see EVERYTHING
One must transcend small screens .........
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Dec 22, 2009 - 02:18pm PT
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Well, I already knew that.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
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Werner, I'm not making an absolute statement. I'm asking if it isn't possible, because brains do no mechanical movement while hearts beat (and stop beating at death), that in early cultures hearts were given ascendancy over the brain.
And given an afterlife bing a major component and motivator in most all religions, it would seem no one can stomach even the thought of just dying and that being a perfect and final completing act of life.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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Do you see anywhere a perfect and final completing act of life in nature?
Life comes from life ....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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Au contraire - life comes from death. And yes, I see death as perfectly completing a life; returning those resources back to into the system. You see that contribution in every death in nature.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
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The body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date.
This is matter. Matter comes from life.
Defending the false understanding that life comes from matter, and basing this false scientific theory, under the spell of the materialistic and nihilistic myths which, masquerading as science, have so bewitched modern civilization is your only defense against, Life comes from life
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 03:53pm PT
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Circularly, life is only sustained by death. I'd say you are clearly frightened by the prospect, the potential, and the 'magic' inherent in ordinary dirt, "matter" and "material". I find it remarkable that humans can so totally disrespect the constituant elements and components of this planet, all the while fantasizing anthropomorphic and mystic bullshit because of their ego- and fear-based blindness won't allow them to acknowledge the power inherent in all that surrounds them. I'm guessing that since life returns to the earth, most folks are frightened of it and think it only capable of death - nothing could be further from the truth. "Matter" is life.
And quite the opposite, materialism is inherent in and propogated by any world view that values mysticism over the the world around us.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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Circularly, life is only sustained by death. I'd say you are clearly frightened by the prospect, ....
Pure unaltered speculation and projection.
So why don't you produce life in the laboratory?
Matter is there. Chemicals are there. You mix them and produce a life.
Life is already there ......
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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Why don't we reproduce photosynthesis? Because we don't yet understand enough to know how to do it. Given it's only a couple of hundred years since the very first concept of a 'cell' I'd say we're doing pretty well. As far as creating life, we have already. What we haven't done is synthesize life yet, because once again we don't know enough yet to do it. But then it's only been 50 years or so since sorting out the basics of RNA and DNA; so creating life in that timeframe is pretty frigging remarkable.
Pure unaltered speculation and projection
As is every word and concept you've written in this thread.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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The dead body of father, the dead body of mother cannot produce.
Any man can understand. Very simple.
So they say in the future the dead body of the father and the dead mother will produce life when we gain knowledge ....
we haven't done is synthesize life yet
The "we" is the life, it's already there. Without the "we" nothing happen.
Lay all the materials on the table without the "we"
Lay all the parts to the automobile on the factory floor and they will not come together without the creator and the constructor, both are life.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 04:22pm PT
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Yes, the dead bodies of the mother and father produce all kinds of life. Again, so painfully and narrowly anthropomorphic in every perspective on life, the planet, and the universe. Some view 'life' as the collective pool of DNA on the planet with all currently living things as a collection of 'fruiting bodies' optimized for expressing life under the current planetary conditions.
Inherent in E = MC2, is both the energy and matter necessary to produce life. That we don't yet know the final gritty details of the initial synthesis is just a function of time.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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Yes, the dead bodies of the mother and father produce all kinds of life.
Your logic is complete utter nonsense.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
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Rokjox,
The less you say about your meeting the more I incline to believe you.
Consider Dame Julian of Norwich. Her experience took place 1373:
begin quote
As a young woman, she had been troubled by doubts and conflicts which culminated in a severe illness at the age of thirty. When on the point of death, as it seemed, the image on the crucifix became the dying Christ in person. Blood flowed from his wounds as he answered her questions by means of sixteen sets of enigmatical pronouncements. The rest of her life was spent in trying to explain them to herself and everyone; for God had spoken to her merely as a representative of his creatures.
'Because of the shewing I am not good,' she wrote in her Revelations, 'but only if I love God the better.' Visions were nothing unless they led to understanding.
Her central feeling was that God was perfect love and charity. Though a masculine deity, his nature could be expressed in the phrase, 'our mother in all things'.
The understanding she attained was beyond reach of words. 'And for the ghostly sight,' she wrote in this connection, 'I have said somewhat, but I may never fully tell it.'
end quote
That comes from the book Memoirs of a Medieval Woman (The Life and Times of Margery Kempe), by Louise Collins. Margery Kempe was another woman, born around 1373, whose autobiography is the first written in English and unusual on several other counts.
Margery Kempe herself was prone to hysterical fits which she believed to be a gift from Christ. These were risky times to make any religious claim which the church might see as presumptive.
William Sawtre, a Roman Catholic priest, declared it better to worship good men than the cross, to give money to the poor rather than spend it on pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and above all he said that bread and wine did not turn into flesh and blood during communion. An act to allow the burning of heretics was introduced in Parliament in 1401. The Archbishop was angry enough that William was burnt nine days before the act became law.
Perhaps the most interesting thing is that Dame Julian had questions. What questions would a woman of the 14th century have?
And for what it's worth, I completely agree with Werner about Gobee. Whether or not the guy has 2 thoughts to rub together, he comes across as honest and good-hearted. I look behind all those strange posts to the person.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 22, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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Your logic is complete utter nonsense.
I agree, if we're looking at it through your incredibly narrow and anthropomorphic perspective of life.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 22, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
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And that somehow the mind is involved with the brain.
Man, I sure hope so!
There is a huge problem connected with any analysis of awareness, consciousness, anything sometimes referred to as 'higher' brain function.
If we did have the perfect recording device, looking at every cell in the brain simultaneously, and we had that anatomical map from Jan's NYT article, to a level which gave us every connection from each cell to each other cell, what would we still be missing?
Among a few other things, we would still need to know all the sensory inputs to that system, and because the system went through a process of self-organization and learning, we would need to know it's history.
What we find ourselves faced with is a figure/ground problem: where does the surround end and the system begin? Usually to study a system you try to isolate it as well as you can. The human mind is in large part a map of the world around it and to a large degree a product of it. You end up trying to study everything. A thing like awareness or consciousness has no clear boundary in the sense that you could describe it satisfactorily with just what you find between the ears.
Far better to choose one of the many jobs the brain does and ask how it does that particular job.
For example: how does a solitary wasp find its way back to its hole? Insects can't afford to carry around a lot of weight and they solve pretty difficult problems without too many neurons. Plus, there is less objection to poking them with electrodes.
It does make you wonder if there is a Diving Bell and the Butterfly inverse out there somewhere. A person who can move and talk but has no peripheral sensation. Should make for one mean meditator?
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