Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:01pm PT
|
Anyways
One can study Socrates, those with a rigid western mind set, although he was an impersonalist (God is Ultimately not a person) he still was a very advanced soul.
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
|
"Werner, my question to Gobee goes to you, to, and respectfully...
wouldn't you choose to conduct yourself in the manner of the Vedas even without the supernatural, if what you had was only the natural?"
Why bother?
Edit: I lost a lot of money in Las Vedas!
|
|
WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin' place
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
|
Well, isn't that special?
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:15pm PT
|
Great discussion folks.
You know, in the absence of material data it is a difficult thing to prove there is a god.
But think.............
How in heck would one go about showing there is only ONE god???
That seems harder than proving a negative.
You would have to look everywhere a god might exist and then also be able to prove a god could not live outside that set of places.
The fact this level of deduction and logic had been well developed long before Christ's day suggests we are in deep trouble. Some serious regression has taken place.
Before long will we see children being born without truly opposable thumbs and a lot of body hair?
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:20pm PT
|
Ed-
Here's a question for you. With the exception of a few articles in Discovery and Scientific American I haven't really done any serious reading about physics since the early 1970's. Are there any books published about what's gone on since then which are equivalent to those of Feynman, Gamow, or Asimov? I'm math illiterate so it has to be at that level.
Thanks!
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
|
I think you learn everything you need to in the sandbox, plays well with others!
But to follow religion by route is not a change of heart tward God's heart,
it's not an act but who you are, or who He IS.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
|
Dumb, stupid, brainwashed, vague speculation, and on and on.
I think if you check every post I have written since I joined the topo I have always been or tried to be respectful of other's opinion's even if differing from mine.
Which one of you know's lynnies inner being, which one of you can prove absolutely there is No jesus and that he is not my best friend.
It is jesus that encourages me to treat others as well or better than myself. I guess yo are more highly evolved because you have learned the art form of name calling, and belittling remarks because someone thinks differently than you.
And don't, please, say well all the rest of the christians are.....generalities don't cut it. How can you paint with such a broadbrush? It's like saying all blondes are stupid.....hehehe.
|
|
WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin' place
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:34pm PT
|
Which one of you know's lynnies inner being, which one of you can prove absolutely there is No jesus and that he is not my best friend.
It is jesus that encourages me to treat others as well or better than myself.
If YOU cannot PROVE absolutely that there is a "living" jesus who is your best friend, and that it isn't all in your head, then the most you can claim is that it is your BELIEF, not jesus, that encourages you to treat others well or better than yourself.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
|
Lynne:
It is as if we were speaking different languages.
When you say "Jesus is your best friend" the words you use imply a corporal being exists. If you did as Ed. suggests and say "the things I read in the Bible have helped me lead my life" - not one person would be able to comment. Then it would be as you have asked in your post above.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
|
Since this is the age of the Kali Yuga, hypocrisy and quarrel, the iron age.
The below is what creates some of the fear from a lot of folks, about religiosity.
The word dambha (Sanskrit), indicates a self-righteous hypocrite, someone not so much concerned with being saintly as with appearing saintly.
In the age of Kali there is a rather large number of self-righteous, hypocritical religious fanatics claiming to have the only way, the only truth and the only light.
Even in the West, however, self-righteous hypocrites consider sincere and saintly followers of other disciplines to be heathens and devils.
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 02:15pm PT
|
"The word dambha (Sanskrit), indicates a self-righteous hypocrite, someone not so much concerned with being saintly as with appearing saintly
In the age of Kali there is a rather large number of self-righteous, hypocritical religious fanatics claiming to have the only way, the only truth and the only light.
Even in the West, however, self-righteous hypocrites consider sincere and saintly followers of other disciplines to be heathens and devils."
That's what Jesus said about the Pharisees, in his day.
Jesus said I am the Way to the Father.
So no matter how sincere and saintly I am I still need Jesus!
Edit: Paul said to think of others as better then yourself.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
|
And one for Gobbee from the Word:
"Spare the rod, and spoil the child."
Direct from a loving god; beat the crap out of your children or they will be "spoiled".
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
|
Bottoms Up! I'm a believer!
Agnostic's are undecided.
Atheist believe in not believing.
Scientist know all the information is not in about the physical world and stay open and know there is still more that could change the past undiscovered
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
|
"Spare the rod, and spoil the child."
Will you let your kids play with fire or on the freeway?
This will hurt me more then you!
Or let them do anything without consequences?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
|
News Flash Gobee: Beating your children, for ANY reason, is a sign of the
parents POOR parenting. Beating your child is SO 17th century Christian.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
|
Howard:
The un-Christian nature of forcing non-Christians to obey a Christian political structure has been pointed out, as did you, many times. And it is always ignored.
But you are right. Lynne's beliefs are personal. So that is where she should keep them.
She really has to ask herself what she is trying to accomplish when she fails to do this. Were she to ask herself this, she might begin to see the problem.
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
|
We never hit our daughter, I agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc
But they need are help!
Edit; The rod in the Old Testament was for rule, as in Psalm 23:4 Thy rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.” Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
The Father God loves the Son Jesus, and so should we are own children!
Sometimes the parent has to be the parent, and say no, not now, or yes.
|
|
GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 03:28pm PT
|
"I know from my DNA that I had ancestors. The paleontologist can only hope that his fossils had descendants."
Which seems the classic scientific refutation - evidence trumping theory. A witty comeback, too.
Yeah, that's really a great line!
It is hard to believe that a separate species of Homo X could have evolved in east Asia since perhaps 150,000 BCE, but that the 'species' would still be fully able interbreed with individuals from other human 'species', and bear fertile offspring.
I think the argument the Chinese scientist was making was even stronger: that Chinese were directly and predominantly descended from East Asian H. Erectus!
H. Erectus was the most successful of all of our relatives, ever - living from 1.7 million to roughly 70,000 years ago. That's over a million and a half years - a hell of a good run! Far better than we've done thus far, in our paltry quarter of a million years on this planet. While they were around, they gave rise to every other successful hominid, including Neanderthals, and us.
With all that said - my understanding is that they lived for nearly a million years in Asia. It's not hard to believe that in that time, they could certainly have given rise to a number of other species that died out. And if Humans did come directly from African H. Erectus (rather than from African H. Heidelbergensis) it's not hard to believe that those Asian H Erectus descendants could breed with H. Sapiens when they wandered into Asia. After all, they'd both be just one hop away from H. Erectus.
But I agree - suggesting that any East Asians are directly and distinctly descended from the East Asian line of H. Erectus is a pretty huge stretch, especially without DNA backing.
GO
|
|
GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
|
So I am connected only by the thought of having a connection
No real connection in other words, after I am born and in my cave
Sorry, you don't get out that easily. Several billion years of evolution made you who you are, and that connection is impossible to erase.
More specifically, you are an expression of your genes, and most of those genes are identical to mine. So in a cave or not, you are programmed to be what you are, as I am to be what I am, and our programming is very very similar.
HOWEVER!!! There is a problem, and that is that the higher consciousness of humans requires social interaction to be formed. In the video Jan posted way back in the thread was a woman who was raised without language. In some ways, she is *not* connected. She is more or less incapable of communicating. She is, in a fundamental way, not part of the human community.
GO
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 10, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
|
Scientist know all the information is not in about the physical world and stay open and know there is still more that could change the past undiscovered
where do you draw the line? between the physical and non-physical?
if the non-physical affects the physical, then it is physical, no?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!