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WBraun
climber
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Nov 26, 2009 - 01:17am PT
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Nah
Should be Madbolter1 and Steve do it together in spring.
2and ascent.
Did I just say something wrong again .........
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 26, 2009 - 01:31am PT
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It's really nothing wes.
It just gets blown so far out of proportion by the way we interact here on the internet.
You should know that.
If you and me were to meet in person we would immediately strangle each other, kick each other in the nuts, and a couple eye gouges, that way we know where we stand.
Then it's off to the bar for more fun ......
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 01:40am PT
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Werner:
"Nah
Should be Madbolter1 and Steve do it together in spring.
2and ascent.
Did I just say something wrong again ........."
PERFECT!
(shhhh, I was not here...)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 26, 2009 - 07:17am PT
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I'd double my offer of beer and wine for a Mad/Gross ascent and throw in a bottle of Scotch.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 26, 2009 - 07:28am PT
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With one haulbag full of exlax.......
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Nov 26, 2009 - 10:49am PT
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I like the idea of Steve and Pete doing the second together. Pete is one of the most prolific guys climbing up there these days Steve. The crux of climbing with him would be having to avoid the hernea from hauling all his crap. There may even be a chance that he is capable of getting done in less time than a month.
Why would madbolter1 want to repeat his route?
Happy Thanksgiving everyone
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 26, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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"Haul stuff?"
ME?!
SUCH a thing to say, Tommy. Steve doesn't even know that every morning, I make the best damn Big Wall Coffee in the whole entar universe. And that "mornings" usually begin around the double digits, and linger well into what most people consider "afternoon". Changeover Time is known to occur not much later.
I'd be happy to belay Steve, however I also want to get my hundred bucks that I'm offered on the WoS Bounty Thread!!! Do you guys remember what THAT would entail??
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!
Oh yes, I almost forgot to tell you - I actually *DID* give my partner a hernia last year when he tried to haul my stuff!!! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Nov 26, 2009 - 11:23am PT
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Your right Kev we are a twisted bunch and this thread is proof of that.
I'll bet yuz got the skills to do the first 5 pitches free. Could be another one of those Quicksilver type routes. You could put all us aider totten weenies in our place. Question is would you stance the bolt's or look for one of the mystery dimples to hook for a bolt? : ) Oh wait that aint legal youl have to settle clipping those Zmacks. HeHe
Hey Pete, I can make a pretty good cup myself with the advent of the jetboil. I am sure your cup is good though. Cheers
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 01:26pm PT
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Richard- After some consideration I have decided to take you at your word.
Here is the deal. If I find more than twenty enhanced hook placements on The Great Slab then I am going to erase the route. If you have given an honest accounting of your activities then you have nothing to worry about because I will be fair and I will leave you gentlemen alone
I think that your good name as a climber may be a bit more difficult to defend than you imagine when you continually threaten to file a defamation suit. Only one way to find that out...
I have considerable legal firepower in my family and friends so your feckless threat of legal action is laughable.
You who pursue plagiarism with a vengeance should certainly understand the value of honesty so again, if you are being straight with everyone, then rest easy.
Should your recollection suddenly change, you have until the end of the day on Black Friday to alter the 10% figure should you choose to do so.
Your route has already been choppped once so this is nothing new.
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Nov 26, 2009 - 02:18pm PT
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NOW we're talking! I can't wait to see this!
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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Nov 26, 2009 - 02:18pm PT
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The plot thickens...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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Oh, and to answer your question. History, tradition, integrity, excellence and style is what drives me, in addition to my minivan...LOL
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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LEB- Your opinion on this thread and on the forum in general holds no value for me personally, just so you know.
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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Nov 26, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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Who gets it?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 26, 2009 - 04:20pm PT
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Karl, you were right - Loisification is well underway. Sheesh.
Tommy - It's all well and fine to have a JetBoil, everyone these days has one of those. But do you have a Dr. Piton Shagadelic Big Wall Coffee Press? Coated in TWO layers of blue closed-cell foam and duct-tape, complete with clip-in loop and dedicated colour-matched fake-o carabiner, and sealed with Marine Goop? Keeps your coffee hot for over thirty minutes!
Randy - you'd better stick close to Steve with your camera. If he only finds nine enhancements, he might feel he needs to grab his drill to install another eleven! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 04:41pm PT
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LEB- Go fish somewhere else...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 26, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
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Geez Lois
I would have thought, after your last experience here, you'd have returned and only infested Loisy threads where we're used to you.
Posting here about a heated issue is buying a ticket to a ride out on a rail!
Peace
Krl
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
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I suppose crashing an orgy and demanding that the participants explain the birds and the bees to you would be legitimate too, eh?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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SG, I do not "continually threaten to file a defamation suit." There have been two times I have even mentioned it, and in both cases you had gone way over the top, far exceeding what could possibly count as "expressions of opinion." And, if you have such "legal firepower" as you say, then you know exactly what I'm saying. Furthermore, as you will note with a CAREFUL re-reading of my comment (that's apparently pretty hard for you), I did not "threaten" it. Conversely I stated that I'm confident that you are not worth the effort. But for all your talk of "history," "integrity," and "excellence," you have never evidenced that you care about any of those things in your discussions on this topic. I would take a tiny bit of ACCURACY over all your vaunted claims of "integrity."
Chop the route???
Wow, yes. Surely you must. Years of growing angst have clearly driven you to this, and you NEED it. So, do! Go ahead and chop it. It matters not to me, but clearly YOU need it!
Of course, plenty of people will be there to record whether or not you can actually get UP the thing without a cheat stick. I'd be happy to have you chop it just in the hopes that you would get this thing out of your system! More power to you, demi-god.
Oh, and as you scrutinize this route more closely than any other route in history has ever been scrutinized, be sure to remember that THIS is what you will be remembered for. Already people are saying, "Geez, I used to really respect that guy and his climbing. But what's UP with this WoS thing? The guy is like looney-tunes!" It is funny in a tragic sort of way to think that you have been brought to this point, that THIS is where your arrogance and bravado have led: you actually see yourself as THE "defender of the faith." Well, more power to you, demi-god.
So, you "answered" one of my questions, but with utter fluff and nonsense: "History, tradition, integrity, excellence and style."
I predicted you would "answer" in such vapid fashion. THE question, cast now in YOUR terms, is: What DRIVES you with such bitterness to focus all of these vague, relativistic values on US over the years? What leads you to imagine that we really are just bugs in good need of a squashing?
Who made YOU the god of these vague, relativistic terms? No, you are still missing the actual question, SG! Warren never IMAGINED Valley Christians at YOUR level of fanaticism!
Oh, and in your count, be sure to remember that I don't lie, so ANY "hooks" with straight-in dimples you find (however many of them now exist) are not ours. As I have said for years, you won't be able to count our enhancements because you won't be able to see them.
So, your fanatical quest arises from a dichotomy in which you have already decided upon the answer:
Either Mark and I are lying about the nature of our "enhancements," or we are not. If you think that we are not, then you have no motivation to go up and "prove" anything about our "enhancements." In that case, you would already know that you can't count our enhancements, so you would just accept the count we have given. After all, we are not lying. So, an attempted count would be pointless.
You clearly do not accept that side of the dichotomy. So, clearly you think that we are lying about the NATURE and the count of our "enhancements." You believe that OUR "enhancements" ARE something like "dimples" that are in-principle countable.
But, that presents your grand, fanatical quest with a fundamental credibility problem.
You treat your role in the quest in grandiose fashion: YOU will act as objective judge of what WE did on the route, and if what WE did on the route passes YOUR (gag! how did you EVER get this arrogant?) inspection, you will deign to let the route live.
But, as I have just demonstrated, you are no objective judge. You go into your quest presuming that we are lying. You presume that you will find and count what you expect to find and count; despite our assurance that you cannot count what we did.
But, now, that presents your quest with an even more serious credibility problem:
1) Your stated goal is to find out the truth about what WE did on the route.
2) Decades have passed, and dozens of teams have been up various parts of the route, including, supposedly, all the way up the slab.
3) You yourself claim that holes have been added to YOUR routes as soon as their second ascents; and you and John both continue to assert that routes like the Sea were all drilled up by the second-through-fourth-ascent teams.
4) In anything resembling "objectivity" and "fairness," as you assert you will employ, you MUST admit that additional drilling was done on WoS after Mark and I were on it, because this happens to ALL routes!
5) So, you have exactly ZERO reason to think that ANY "dimples" you find on WoS, almost thirty years later and after dozens of teams have been on the route, reflect ANYTHING about what Mark and I did.
6) So, your supposedly "fair" count actually counts NOTHING it claims to be counting, because....
7) Mark and I did NOT "dimple" hooks on the route, but...
8) YOU (opposed to your claim of "fairness") have to ASSUME IN ADVANCE that we are lying in order to motivate your quest at all, yet....
9) You KNOW that EVERY route gets butchered by subsequent efforts on it.
9) Thus, your quest is an exercise in futility because, given the above, it can demonstrate NOTHING about the route, about Mark and I, or about your supposedly "objective justification" to chop the route.
Your entire fanatical quest is a self-serving but ultimately self-defeating one: ANY "dimples" you find will not count as justification for either your quest or your (inevitable) chopping; so you will have demonstrated nothing in the minds of reasonable people. It is impossible in principle for you to PROVE that we are lying at this point; too much time has passed, and too many teams have been on the route!
So, your supposed justification for chopping the route is obviously question-begging and a mere personal vendetta; which will even more pressingly raise the questions I have posed to you above: WHAT drives you to this point? Don't give us vapid pseudo-answers at this point, SG! More and more inquiring minds want to KNOW!
You have missed styling yourself after Robbins, because at least he did a SECOND ascent, very SOON after the WEML was established. By letting almost three decades pass, with dozens of attempts on the route, you have made it impossible in principle for you to "judge" OUR work! So, whatever you decide to do up there, however you work it around in your own mind, you STILL fail to judge US. You are no Robbins, on ANY level. ROBBINS could actually admit he was mistaken.
But, if such a quixotic quest still moves you, then I and others will enjoy watching your efforts for the entertainment value alone. This will be one of the most magnificent exercises in futility that I have ever heard of. If you think that chopping the route will make this whole thing go away, then you are ignorant of history. And if you think that at this point YOU enjoy the credibility to "objectively judge" MARK and I and the route WE put up, then you are both foolish and ignorant of history.
I am SOOOOOOO curious how this will play out! What an incredible exercise in logic and psychology played out on an increasingly public stage. In fact, I think the major media would be fascinated by this thread and its results in the Spring!
Go, man, go!!!!! Your arrogance and bravado are EPIC!!!!
With each passing day you ENSURE that your stated desire to see the route fade into obscurity will NEVER happen!!!
Chop away: demi-god. My name for you (worthy of a god) after your epic adventure will be: Sisyphus!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 26, 2009 - 05:19pm PT
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No response forthcoming until Black Friday has passed.
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