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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Krahmes, your chart is titled "Pre-Contact Estimation of American Population", not "North American" or "The Americas". And one is forced to observe that the correct title should be "Pre-Contact Estimates...", which is what it is. There is surely an anthropologist or other 'ologist around who can accurately inform us as to the pre-contact population of the Americas - the subject at hand - including minimum and maximum credible estimates, and the median.
Bump for #500, and John.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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tis the season for us amuricans to
don our plastic disposable diapers
as we ready ourselves for some rough
and tumble cultural excess.
we's king of the 'dumb.
get in our shoes,
they fit everyone of envy.
join our ignorance.
be our stupidity.
pound your pride in and out of steel vaginas
cause we've the coin to
buy out oil's to lubricate our
industrial fornication.
f*#king world, smarten up.
you fools just follow us brilliance minds,
you'll see, our religion,
our economy,
our society will lead the way for the rest of
the sorry sapien tribe.
don't argue,
just subdue.
don't dream,
just mimick us.
it's our birthday dammit.
drink a budweiser and put some
extra mayonaise on your sandwhich.
america is growing up.
(all sarcasm aside, the current political majority
actually hints that america is maturing.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Like the age-dated constitution
The Cans of Bud lie there ignored
Defended only by the ones who cast them aside.
They'll be picked up by the homeless
Or the aging pensioners too slow to have chosen "the right stock"
And now totally depend on booty.
The rags to riches story of the boy wonder
Is told not in the lies of the mythology of Middle America
But here, Rather, Mr. Brokaw.
And the Greatest Generation led to Baby Boomers
And the Gen Ex led to some outlandish people
Calling themselves my grandchildren.
Call back Jenny Lind, 'the Swedish Nightingale.'
Then we will have a duet performed with 'the Norwegian Thrush'
Accompanied by whining about First World Problems.
Make mock of our past but hope for the future
For they'll be doing it to us some day.
All Grasshoppers die. Some just die rich.
So, what?
"I had some US Savings Bonds but they never matured."---Ancient Teenager
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deschamps
Trad climber
Out and about
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Hmmm... Did some native tribes not forcibly displace and attack other tribes before the arrival of Europeans? Europeans are not the only ones to engage in this kind of behavior. It has been around since the dawn of mankind.
Does that make it right? No. But it puts it in perspective and shows that you can't blame one race for this kind of behavior.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
Just ran across some old George Carlin skit.... to lighten things up.
“This entire country is completely full of sh#t and always has been. From the Declaration of Independence to the Constitution to The Star-Spangled Banner, it’s really nothing more than one big, steaming pile of red, white and blue, All-American bullsh#t.
“Because think of how we started – think of that. This country was founded by a group of slave-owners who told us all men are created equal. Oh, yeah. All men, except for Indians and n***ers and women, right? (Always like to use that authentic American language.)
“This was a small group of unelected, white male, land-holding slave-owners who also suggested their class be the only one allowed to vote. Now that is what’s known as being stunningly and embarrassingly full of sh#t."
Although I never met him, I always admired John Bachar and considered him a role model. Lecturing the rock climbers about racism, right on. It's a pretty white sport, after all.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Pulling out the "Race Card" to see who won?
Romans, but they weren't right.
Huns, incorrect.
Martians of HG Wells, mistaken.
Islam, so full of woe.
Protestants, it's so easy to be a critic, but hard to live up to your code.
People who fight people, that's where heroes come from.
Enjoy your neighbor today.---the Zombie's creed
We enjoy a liberal standard of double-standardism here and I love that Constitution of ours, flawed as it seems.
Anyone says different can go piss up a doubled rope and go back to fecking Oz or UK.
I am partial to a good Victoria Shirazz though, Blue.
You might say I'm full of it, but these are just loose thoughts. Wait'll I spew...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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The Communists could not win.
God was not on their side.
What would His pinko Son say?
[Big just-in-case Smiley Face: pink not white or yellow or black.]
Kandy Korn image of colors united.
Fourth of July gets one excited.
Fires start cracking with bomz bursting in air.
Watch out for sparklers caught in your hair.
Romney, Clinton, Perot and the Bushes,
Come clean you big sluts,but watch out for your tushes.
You all lied about stuff, your cred is all gone,
Go get in a line. Deal with 'em Ron.*
We'll save you the pink plug, Obama. How dare you cover up gun trafficking?
*The choice is yours, Mr. Presidents, Piton Ron or Ron A.
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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To any who would deny the white man's encrochent on native American's, I would encourge you to visit Cherokee North Carolina, and see "Unto These Hills". It certainly brought a tear to my eye, as well as gave me a better understanding of exactly who we are as a country...
"The Cherokees encountered their first white man in 1540, Spaniards searching for gold. 250 years later Tecumseh, a hotheaded warrior from the north urged the Cherokees to go to war against the white man, but Junaluska with counsel from Sequoyah decided it would be best to live in peace with the white men. The Great Eagle Dance - a dance of triumph from the past is performed to celebrate the victory the Cherokees and the white men claimed at Horseshoe Bend against other Indians that threatened the American Nation, but the victory celebrations were to be short lived.
One of the most compelling outdoor dramas, Unto These Hills, tells the tragic story of how the Cherokee ancestors were forcefully driven out of the Great Smoky Mountains and marched 1,200 miles to Oklahoma. You will never forget how Tsali gave his life as sacrifice, so that a handful of his people could remain on the land of their heritage."
This is truly a very tragic and sad story of the white man's heritage in this country. We should be ashamed.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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travesties against the american indian come a little more recent than the century-ago wars, deportations and treaty violations. when the american indians started to feel a little political muscle in the shadow of the civil rights movement of the 1960s, they organized into AIM, powwowing around the country, organizing marches and legal actions and bringing public attention to the "trail of broken treaties"--trying to curry some support from us liberal hand-wringers.
AIM was serious, however, and took it as far as an armed showdown in south dakota. all the while, the FBI had planted a serious spy in their inner circle, a man by the name of douglass durham, who, totally illegally, became privy to their meetings involving legal strategy, reporting back to the federal government. with AIM they also developed a technique known as snitchjacketing, through the use of such illegal espionage, causing deep suspicions among the leaders of the movement against each other. the death of anna mae aquash, on a lonely road following some dark threats, may have been carried out by fellow AIM members--or, many suspect, by the FBI itself. look into it, if you give a god damn. you'll find much of it in a well-researched book, beyond bullets: the suppression of dissent in the united states by jules boykoff, a professor of political science.
when it all went down and the federal government crushed them again--reminiscent of the chinese communists in the tian an men massacre--the two principals, dennis banks and russell means, decided just to stop trying. banks stayed on the rez and devoted himself to helping his people in smaller ways, and very admirably. means came to hollywood and gave us some noble savage footage in a few movies about the old travesties.
one of my favorite american indians is buffy st. marie, a beautiful, talented, passionate singer and artist. in another kind of battle of the 60s, president lyndon baines johnson was known to get on the telephone from the white house and personally appeal to radio stations around the country to keep buffy's song, "the universal soldier", off the air.
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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in another kind of battle of the 60s, president lyndon baines johnson was known to get on the telephone from the white house and personally appeal to radio stations around the country to keep buffy's song, "the universal soldier", off the air.
That's some seriously grim stuff man. Karma's gonna be a bitch.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Already had this cry. Done.
NEXT!
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Genocide against native Americans is about as antiAmerican as you can get, but ironically some people think that looking back on our country's (real) history with a critical eye is unAmerikan.
Yep. I guess if some had their way, they'd put all sick, old, ill, and whomever else needed some/any sort of government intervention on the Rez.... Hell, just put 'em on the Rez, give 'em some firewater, and they'll be fine, they'll shut up and leave us alone.... so we can rape and pillage all the downtrodden out of whatever they have left. Yep.... were so cool, we totally rock because we have our crap together, let those drunken fools lay in the bed we (they) made for themselves.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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If the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868 was honored, all those pesky injuns would still own wyoming, montana, and south dakota.boy, thank (white)god that never happened! How would we ever have gotten all that uranium, and wiped out the buffalo, and gave them casinos and carved a bunch of faces in Paha Sapa?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Bachar was the man. Too bad I wasn't hanging around here, before he left us, but one of his greater legacies is the knowledge he left behind for us here.
Thanks JB, RIP!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, it's always a pleasure to have the occasional thread where people can self-identify as bigots and racists, even if it's the same few again and again.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I worked a year on the Fort Peck Reservation, one of the 13% white population living in Brockton, MT…where about two thirds of the population live under the poverty “line”.
Teen suicides are rampant…kids ending their lives for being suspended from the basketball or wrestling team or losing a boyfriend/girlfriend. Yes, white kids do it too.
The common threads are depression, self doubt, financial problems, alcohol use, lack of family bonds…and in the case of some Amerindian tradition and seasoning… a certain suicide contagion that engenders such tragedy by impulsive thinking and a social recitation that glorifies the victim.
…and, of course, sequestered and disassociated on the reservation...their social calamity is abstracted away from a mainstream whitebread America.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And the BIA and Interior Department are essentially still at war with our tribes. My wife's tribe is, as I type this, just now settling with the federal government for pennies on the dollar of 'mismanaged' (properly read as 'looted') tribal funds. Similarly in the Cobell case which has been going on since 1996 they are still wrangling over the details of a settlement. Every Secretary of the Interior since Gail Norton has been found in contempt by the special master of the case for allowing the BIA to repeatedly destroy records. The BIA was caught again and again destroying paper records as well as dropping firewalls and turning off Interior department security to allow "unknown parties" to destroy BIA land, lease, mineral, timber, and Indian Money account records. The entire Interior Department was taking off the Internet several times, the third time in 2004 - Skeptical appeals court lets Interior computers back online.
If you look at tribe after tribe, they have been systematically stripped of land, resources, and monies right through to the present with the 1950-60s being a real highlight with the Indian termination policy of 1953 as inacted by the House Concurrent Resolution 108. The Klamath tribal lands shrunk from 20 million acres in 1864, to 2 million acres in 1954, and then were systematically stripped to today's 308 acres.
My wife's tribe on the Colville Reservation have similarly stripped from several million acres down to 2,100 acres today. And in the 1930's a bogus treaty was signed for the Grand Coulee Dam construction and even that bogus document promised electricity, irrigation water, and a percentage of the annual electricity sales in cash - none of which ever materialized until 1994 when they again settled for pennies on the dollar.
I have no qualms whatsoever saying the US government genocide of Native American peoples just shifted into an administrative mode over the course of the 20th century but was and is just as ruthless and effective in the mop-up mode today as it ever was. The tribes have only recently been starting to fight back after growing about five generations of successively more sophisticated lawyers who understand how Washington works.
It's not something from our past, but rather something we choose to hide and not look at as Jennie said - all the way around it's disgraceful and makes a mockery out of July 4th each year.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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In humble response to jBachar's post, I cannot agree. As simple as that.
When we are military we are not different colors.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Nobody lies like a dead soldier except the guys next to him.
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