Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:47am PT
|
Respect and belief are two different things, sir. Your point was about belief.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:50am PT
|
”And Socrates was a real person - read Aristophanes.”
But did Aristophanes exist and if so, was he the sole author of the plays attributed to him? The plays, in fact, are our primary source of information about the individual,Aristophanes.
Our dog can chase its own tail doubting Greek history just as it can with the biblical.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:52am PT
|
Howweirddean, All of us have the choice to believe or not believe. I choose to believe because I have been the way of sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and none of these lasted, but the love of Christ remains. And I have personally seen Him at work in my life, and the lives of others, and I feel His presence in my heart. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Don't confuse religion (a man made thing) with a personal relationship.
"He who has ears, let him hear."
Wow. Yep, I thought I elluded to this but you put it just as well.
I think, like organized poiltics, religion has been corrupted. It was when Jesus walked the Earth so why would it have changed? He opposed money-changing rats and taking money to pray to God. This may indeed be a sign of the times.
Having faith and praying to God is selfless and should cost nothing but committment. You don't need a mediator to talk to God. JUST DO IT!
If it costs money, you're talking to the wrong people.
|
|
dfrost7
Social climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:54am PT
|
(Modje) Earlier I was talking about credibility, wasn't about respect or belief. I certainly accept Native American oral histories as credible. I just added I respected them - (not a sir, though).
Nice Blue.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:57am PT
|
Now, now - no need to jump the conclusion that I was suggesting that anyone other than Socrates was (or was not) a historic figure. Although if both Aristophanes and Socrates weren't 'real', then the NWO conspiracy is clearly much bigger than even the Da Crackpot Code indicated.
When we go back more than a few centuries, 'proving' that someone existed is an uphill battle. We have documents, architecture, archaeology, and of course whatever's in the historical record. In a sense, it's all circumstantial evidence - but there's a whole pile of it for Socrates and Aristophanes.
|
|
dfrost7
Social climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:59am PT
|
How can you not love the minds on this.
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:05am PT
|
Again I state: the credibility (believeability) of the oral history lies in the listener.
We believe most, that which best reflects our pre-conceived thoughts.
Too late in the night for examples on all sides of the coin. Some frightening AND uplifting oral histories from all over the globe. Not all are true, and most have had embellishment (grapevine stuff).
Bluey said some wisdom that I agree with upthread--not that it matters to anyone.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:07am PT
|
Is there credible historic proof of Jesus?
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:08am PT
|
Is there credible historic proof of Jesus?
No. If you have to ask the question, no.......you've missed a major point.
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा, co
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:09am PT
|
I saw him in a dream when I was eight... he told me not to believe in false prophets, FWIW अद्वैत वेदान्त;
|
|
mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:10am PT
|
I just talked to the big J and he said he was going to send the Mormons to Hell tell the Jews to cut their sideburns. Pass it on and by the way he said fuucckk those snake handlers let them die.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:12am PT
|
Thanks Largo. Much appreciated.
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा, co
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:13am PT
|
oh and he borrowed my sleeping bag on lay lady ledge and when I woke it was gone.
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:16am PT
|
goat, he just lent it to someone in greater need:-)
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:17am PT
|
How old are You cragman? You remember that?
Just yanking your chain.
My point is that you pretty much have to denounce science and history to be one with "the death cult", then there is the "only way" dogma.
No prob, many people do not believe in offwidth, and I live it, even if I can't climb it, anymore.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:19am PT
|
Why do I think there is historic proof? Guess I'd better go do some research. Josh McDowell wrote a great book regarding this question.
I mean the Gospels give Jesus lineage from Mary's side and Joseph's side. Are you telling me that all the people in the Bible were made up figments of imaginations? What about Solomon and the Temple he built in the City of Jerusalem ? The Proverbs he wrote......
Oral History can also be quite good. Before papyrus some cultures memorized their lineages.
|
|
goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा, co
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:20am PT
|
That's okay Lynne you don't need proof it's all about "the faith"
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:21am PT
|
You guys are funny...just be careful what you hold in disregard.
I pray for y'all.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:23am PT
|
Yeah Lynne, a lot of the folks might or might not have existed.
Let's look at things from a modern perspective. If I wrote down something that someone else claims they witnessed 40 years or so earlier, and which is quite extraordinary, and presented it to you, would that be very credible?
I don't think so.
Now add 1900 years of additions, deletions, and interpretations to the texts (heck, entire books were deliberately omitted!) and you have, as an historical "source," a mess. There are probably some nugget of truth, but where?
I just don't find that very credible.
|
|
Window Dressing
Social climber
Santa Monica, CA
|
|
|
Jul 15, 2009 - 01:26am PT
|
Largo writes:
"Like many, things like the virgin birth are not especially useful to me. Even if true fantastic wonders don´t in and of themselves have transformative powers. More than magic, when I think of Jesus I think of unsurpassable humility, and that, ironically, is perhaps where the real power lies after all."
Very true.
I think the miracles were more significant in the message they sent than in themselves. Jesus was confirming that He was Emanuel (God with us) that Isaiah had written of. That was good news.
Regards,
-Mike
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!