Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
coiler
Trad climber
The Rock Monkey Ranch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 09:12am PT
|
It has become so tiresome... having the Cristians tell me how to live every aspect of my life. Telling me what I can and cannot do. Don't they remember that their anscenstors came here because the Brits kept telling them what to do... and they didn't like it? Now I guess they've forgotten that. Everywhere I go I'm told,"god bless this or that" or "pray for this or that" ENOUGH!
AMERICA- is based on FREEDOM. We are all here to "persue our happiness" if that means some guy or girl wants to marry his/her gay lover.. who am I to tell him no. who are YOU to tell him no. If it's OK to legislate no gay marraige. I say let's legislate no more Cristianity. After all, Cristianity has been the root of just about every war EVER. Surely this religion is a dangerous and uncontrollable threat. It must be stopped. BAN CRISTIANITY- SAVE THE WORLD! SAVE FREEDOM!
MY MESSAGE TO CRISTIANS- KEEP YOUR RELIGION TO YOURSELF! KEEP IT IN YOUR CHURCHES AND IN YOUR HOMES, AND OUT OF MINE AND EVERYONE ELSES LIVES! ENOUGH ALLREADY! I AM NOT CRISTIAN, YOUR RULES DON'T APPLY TO ME! ENOUGH!
BESIDES- doesn't our government have more important things to be thinking about.. like our trillions of dollars of deficit and a war that appears to have no end?
|
|
More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 10:24am PT
|
"BAN CRISTIANITY- SAVE THE WORLD! SAVE FREEDOM!"
Now that's an oxymoron
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 10:38am PT
|
After seeing all the little tantrums the gay activists are throwing because they didn't get their way, I'm wishing I had voted in favor of Prop 8.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 11:18am PT
|
Yeah, buncha whiners bitching because their rights were taken away and they are treated like 2d class citizens.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 11:32am PT
|
"After seeing all the little tantrums the gay activists are throwing because they didn't get their way, I'm wishing I had voted in favor of Prop 8."
Yeah, WTF. Why don't they STFU and return to the back of the bus. Whining liberals!
It's not like Obama threatened to raise their taxes!
;-0
Karl
|
|
coiler
Trad climber
The Rock Monkey Ranch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 11:41am PT
|
Chaz... Let's get this straight. I'm not a gay activist. I'm totaly straight, married to a hottie little blonde woman with blue eyes. Just what the Cristians say is marraige right? But I am a FREEDOM activist. Telling people who they can and cannot marry is not freedom, no matter if 100% voted for prop 8. Prop 8 is in direct violation of the state, and federal constitutions. That was my JOKE about banning Cristianity. I'm fine with Christianity. We all need some way to explain what happens when we cash out our chips in this life. Some tribesman beat on a drum and dance around a fire chanting," uga booga, ooga booga". Praying to their many gods for whatever they need; rain, a good harvest, fertility etc. Some people go to a church and ask thier "one true god" to forgive them for the bad things they did in this life and "pray" that they get into this "heaven", where it's all peaches and cream for eternety. Again, others believe if they throw some bones on the ground, the way they land will tell them how some things will play out. In the end, they are all little imaginary friends who help them wake up and go about thier little lives. Personaly I don't care about all these religions. I have my beliefs, and they aren't even important. I'm just sick of the religious right in this country running around bossing everybody into what they believe. Like I said, It doesn't matter if 100% of us voted for prop 8. It's none of our business if people want to marry thier gay lovers, or their parrots, or dogs... or hot little blonde women. Prop 8 was about telling someone else, they are not allowed to persue their happiness, which is VERY un-AMERICAN, and pissess me off.
|
|
bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 11:47am PT
|
once again...sexual orientation MIGHT be genetically determined, but our sexual behavior is completely our choice...again, as a man, i am genetically predisposed to have sex with, literally, thousands of females during my life...my reproductive system is designed (or has evolved) for it; however, i CHOOSE to be monogamous...that's right, i CHOOSE to ignore sexual drive, desires, instinct, design, evolution, etc. because i believe simply following my apetites (like an animal) would be detrimental not only to me but, more importantly, to society
karl introduces a new point...arranged marriages; now, the concept of romantic love and marrying for love is rather new, beginning during the high middle ages...prior to that time, marriage was considered a more spiritual union...the purpose of marriage was not happiness but a higher level of fulfillment manifested in children...the marriage was believed to be more important than either of the individuals involved
consider: "i married you because i love you" vs. "i love you because i married you"
what's the difference? the first statement is selfish; it's all about the speaker...in the second statement, the speaker subjugates himself/herself to the union
read Brideshead Revisited...hint: it's a HAPPY ending!
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 11:52am PT
|
"once again...sexual orientation MIGHT be genetically determined, but our sexual behavior is completely our choice...again, as a man, i am genetically predisposed to have sex with, literally, thousands of females during my life...my reproductive system is designed (or has evolved) for it; however, i CHOOSE to be monogamous...that's right, i CHOOSE to ignore sexual drive, desires, instinct, design, evolution, etc. because i believe simply following my apetites (like an animal) would be detrimental not only to me but, more importantly, to society "
Why should gay people fight it? There's nothing wrong with being gay.
Interestingly, you keep bringing up monogamy, yet opposing gay marraige discourages long-term monogamy.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 11:54am PT
|
Bookworm wrote
"prior to that time, marriage was considered a more spiritual union...the purpose of marriage was not happiness but a higher level of fulfillment manifested in children...the marriage was believed to be more important than either of the individuals involved "
This is total BS. (although it's true that the couple was considered unimportant and also their happiness was unimportant.) Arranged marriage was a practical societal means of controlling family wealth and stability by keeping people marrying within their neighbor tribes, castes and economic class. There was no social security so people had to have kids, not because they wanted to share their love, but to promulgate help around the farm or family business. (I'm sure they loved their kids)
Then he writes
"consider: "i married you because i love you" vs. "i love you because i married you"
what's the difference? the first statement is selfish; it's all about the speaker...in the second statement, the speaker subjugates himself/herself to the union "
Huh? The second statement is more of a surrender to destiny that they have no control over. I spent a year in India where nearly all marriages are arranged. A HUGE theme of many, many Indian movies concerns couples that are dying to get married but their families don't approve, are of different castes, or want them to marry different people. This theme is central to thousand of Indian Films.
Are you married Bookworm? How would you feel about your folks setting you up with a bride with the awareness of how their choice would affect their socio-economic status.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Blight
Social climber
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 11:57am PT
|
"I'm fine with Christianity"
This is one of the key lies of atheism: the pretence that atheists just don't care about religion. It's just a lie, intended to cover up the obvious truth: not only do atheists care about religion, almost all of them are absolutely obssessed by it.
How many of the threads about religion here are started by believers? Almost none. In fact 99% of them are started by atheists to scream, rant and whine about how religion is big and nasty and they just don't like it.
Perhaps you should face facts, although I doubt you have the courage to: saying "Personaly I don't care about all these religions immediately followed by "I'm just sick of the religious right in this country running around bossing everybody into what they believe" is self-contradictory nonsense.
You either care about it - in which case you'll be admitting that religion gets to you and you can't just dismiss it - or you don't, in which case quit bitching and shut your face.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 11:59am PT
|
Blight, you're still nuts.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 12:18pm PT
|
Bookworm
"once again...sexual orientation MIGHT be genetically determined, but our sexual behavior is completely our choice...again, as a man, i am genetically predisposed to have sex with, literally, thousands of females during my life...my reproductive system is designed (or has evolved) for it; however, i CHOOSE to be monogamous...that's right, i CHOOSE to ignore sexual drive, "
So you make these choices. How about if somebody else was making those choices for you. Would you resent somebody saying you should be celibate for life because they didn't respect your freedom to choose? Because that's what you are advocating.
Coiler was making a joke but it hasn't always been. Christians were thrown to lions and considered very negative for society at large. That alone should advise caution when religious folks decide to control morality and groups.
And hey, why don't we just legislate that couples only have one child (like china) having too many kids could also be argued as one of the most pressing problems the world has. Why not put it into law?
Peace
Karl
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
|
"Why not put it into law?"
Get a petition started, Karl.
See how far you get.
Maybe that's "Why not".
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 12:37pm PT
|
Chaz: So your reasoning for legislating against gay marriage is "because we can?"
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 12:44pm PT
|
HiDesertDJ,
When was I "...reasoning for legislating against gay marriage"?
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 12:49pm PT
|
Chaz wrote
"Why not put it into law?"
Get a petition started, Karl.
See how far you get.
Maybe that's "Why not".
How about if we get a proposition on the ballot that dramatically raises state income tax for anyone making a million bucks a year and distributes that money directly to everyone making under $100,000 a year. I'm not talking a bit of economic stimulus or Alaska style bonus, but some serious money. Maybe people would be tempted to legislate their own selfish interests at the expense of others?
You see, the minority always needs protection from the majority.
Peace
karl
|
|
Buckwheat
Big Wall climber
No. Cal
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 02:25pm PT
|
There is ZERO evedence of homosexuality in any species...only humans. Most birds mate for life, show me two male birds humping for life, it does not happen. Just because a dog is so doped up on hormones and wants to hump anything in site including a male doesnt mean it is actually born gay.
Human minds have a tendency to look for pleasure anywhere: (climbing, weird sex, drugs, money, power, politics, etc, etc)
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 02:35pm PT
|
"There is ZERO evedence of homosexuality in any species...only humans. Most birds mate for life, show me two male birds humping for life, it does not happen."
WRONG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
(I know it's a wikipedia article, but the sources are sound.)
But so what? It exists in hunans.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2008 - 02:47pm PT
|
I have been an atheist since about age 7, I also had the same problems with the tooth fairy and santa. I am not obsessed with religion, in fact I never think about it at all. How would a non atheist have any idea what an atheist thinks or believes?
You wouldn't, just like I don't know or care what is going through believer's heads. I am not contemptuous of you and your beliefs, I respect everyone's right to believe or not believe.
People once believed the earth was flat, then that women or Indians or Blacks should not be allowed to vote in this country.
Homosexual marriage will someday, maybe 50 years or whatever, be fully legal in all 50 states. Progress against ignorance takes time, the more ignorance to overcome means all the more time.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!