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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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I think that many buyers relied on brokers telling them it was a good deal. The brokers made THEIR money, on the transaction, as they always do.
And I think many brokers knew damned well what was going on. D'ya think any of them is really going to admit it, though?
It was a con game.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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The ratings agencies did their part in this, certifying the quality of things that were actually terrible. One of my favorite explanations:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
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I owned a very high volume mortgage company, originating and selling many hundreds of millions of dollars in MBS's.
Some points of clarification - FHA and VA loans are little to no down payment and any default losses are paid to the servicer by the pool of paid in premium money.
As such, FHA and VA loans defaulting were a quite minor part of the financial collapse.
It was non government or conventional mortgage underwriting that was the major contributing factor, specifically the "stated and not verified income" loans that defaulted
Those loans required down payments of typically 25%, with 75% being financed.
There is nothing wrong in theory with "liars" loans, because lenders are usually just fine if they default with substantial equity remaining and could easily be sold and often at a profit.
But the elephant is the room was the Republican House, Senate, and Presidency leading up to and during the meltdown, and the "conservative" attitude that market should be largely unregulated, free, free, like puppies, and that "big government" regulation was somehow undesirable.
And so during those critical years the mortgage market was ignored and underwriting guidelines were not toughened, and yes that is 100% "blame" of the Bush Administration.
But it was not only mortgage underwriting, it was the creation of CDO's, or Collateralized Debt Obligations that caused the collapse. Briefly, this is when you mix in car and credit loan loans to raise the overall yield backed by mortgage packaging.
And that was very much underwritten by S&P and Moodys, yes it was those guys who failed to reduce the bond ratings CDO's when deep in the bowels of the loan servicing companies the first waves of defaults started to come in.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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hmmm, so the poor folks hoodwinked the big azz banks into creating this securitized debt while simultaneously conning AIG into insuring it, it all makes sense now
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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poor folks
You know it Jon! Nothing more dangerous to society and the figurative 'pot O'gold' than the poor folk, nothing!
It sure in the hell isn't all those current admin appointees, corporate tax breaks, etc. I mean by just shear numbers, the poor folk will always win, always. There are more poor folk than there are corporations in this country and that should scare you, especially if you are an older white male!! Look at all that free stuff the last admin gave them and on top of that, WELFARE!
F my current house, I'm going shopping for a poor house so I can start living more like an American!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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After President Obama took office his Democrats passed a very good financial regulation legislation known as Dodd-Frank, which essentially required banks to act more like banks and less as market speculators.
And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation
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That same Republican congress has just passed into law a massive tax cut to further enrich the already rich, with corporate taxes cut from 35 down to 21%.
The nonpartisan CBO estimates this will add over one trillion dollars to the national debt
can you say hypocrisy? this from the party of "financial responsibility"
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The DOW was up 233% while Obama was President, the DOW fell 50% and the US economy went into the Great Recession under Republican President Bush
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increasing waiting periods between application and gun purchases directly lessens gun suicide
gun suicide is, by far, the leading result of handgun possession v murder
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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Check the defaults of folks who bought additional "homes" {3, 4, 5}? if you want to see where the real problem was.
HINT: The problem was not one-home buying "poor" people…
Anyway how much did Herr Braun weigh in the blaster photo?
Floats like a butterfly wouln't sting B
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
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And now the Republican Congress has weakened that regulation
Not so fast there Naughton, my frikkin senator did, Jon Tester is his name and rolling in the $$ is his game. I agree with most of his politics and appreciate his candor of the past but it seems as though DC might have changed him the last couple years? It seems like a disease most catch, if they don't already have it. Warren and Sanders are ~the~ couple to respect IMHO.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 29, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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good old fashioned unrestrained laissez faire capitalism
Yes, like 19th century London with 500,000 starving to death in the Lower East End and 50,000 prostitutes on the streets spreading disease. No child labor laws. Pedophile's delight! All that optimistic progress heading headlong for the trenches of WWI.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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Trump is truly grasping at anything and everything to distract the discussion away from the Trump Show, and onto matters that are passe, settled, irrelevant, or simply never existed within the reality perceived by the other 7 billion people on the planet.
Trump's latest Twitter-attack accuses Amazon of defrauding the Postal Service, and not paying taxes.
Amazon pays postage to have the Post Office deliver packages to people, which is a concept children understand. Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.
Amazon doesn't pay any Federal income tax, but that is the new standard for many corporations. There is a long list of corporations that don't pay any Federal tax.
Trump may have intentionally driven Amazon's stock value down ($30 billion, so far) to benefit his short-selling insider-trading pals. Trump's inane tweets have created market disruptions in the past, which would be highly consistent with inverted pump-and-dump stock fraud schemes.
The real answer is probably a mixture of the two: feeding inside information to his buddies about a sudden drop in Amazon's stock price, and a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from Stormy Daniels.
Trump won't directly address the Stormy Daniels situation. The basis for his unusual silence in the matter can be inferred from the following known facts:
 Stormy Daniels is a porn star
She is also a porn film producer
She engaged in sex acts with Trump
Cellphone cameras existed at that time
Trump allowed her to playfully spank him
Trump has a craving for flattery and attention
Trump is obsessed with his television show ratings
Trump is a minor actor who has appeared in a few films
The NDA between her and Trump required surrender of films
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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oh my, still have Obama Derangement Syndrome, honey boo? hard to get over....
just can't stand the very idea of a only half white President?
name your sources, your "opinion" is the same as your vote for the Groper in Chief
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Mar 29, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
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One aspect of us humans is our tendency to form our own insular tribes. We yearn to be included, and our psyche is pre-programmed to be defensive of our tribes.
Nationalism taps into this in a big way. Make it us vs. "them" and spout off a list of scary rhetoric (real or BS) and you can rally a following. Make folks feel like their livelihood or even their lives are on the line due to outsiders and they'll suspend rational thought to defend their tribe.
Trump and other nationalist's have tapped into this in a big way. Real and imagined mistreatments are used to rally large swaths of the populous together. Want blue collar folks on your side, start thrashing on colleges and evil liberals. Want the the working class on your side, spout off against immigrants and tech companies. Want to defeat gun control, claim any gun law leads to enslavement by the government. Don't want those folks to second guess any of that, then either take over the media or vilify it.
Tribalism shows up from the micro level (friends, family, coworkers), to the macro (American, christian, white/black, and what have you). Dye a bunch of folks purple and they'll form together as a group without even realizing what their brains have done to their behavior.
I expect that in a world where there has been too much injustice and suffering that has not been well tended to by the elite that we will continue to see a fertile field for nationalism to thrive in for some time. Trump, Putin, Duerte, and others are but a sign of the times.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Defending the Amazon postal deal as good business is laughable.
Good for who? Care to elaborate? it is a very complex subject with a lot of nuance. Most of which goes over Trumps head.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Deal Artist (soon to be The Disaster Artist) alleges he is the absolute master of his arcane negotiation craft.
Now, he's complaining that the Postal System entered into a bad business deal with Amazon. Instead of addressing the allegedly bad deal in some rational fashion, he threw a Trumper-Tantrum to elicit, what? Sympathy for the Post Office? Anger at Amazon? Risible contempt for himself?
The self-styled Picasso of the paperwork, Da Vinci of the details, and Frederico of the fine-print should invest his allegedly superior deal-making skills into a more favorable contract with Amazon.
Instead, he Twitter-attacks Amazon in a childish fit of rage to feed his attention addiction.
EDIT:
DING-DING-DING-DING-DING
And, we have a winner . . . . . . . .
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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It's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Mar 29, 2018 - 11:38pm PT
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t's not about Amazon, and it's not about the USPS. It's about the WaPo.
Yes, the same guy who owns Amazon also owns the Washington Post, and the WP publishes unflattering things about Trumposaurus.
Nice petty little feud.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 30, 2018 - 01:32am PT
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Bulk mailing discounts are taught at the Wharton School of Business, which Trump supposedly attended.
Just to be clear, mr Dennison did NOT attend the Wharton School of Business, a very prestigious post graduate school whose MBA program is considered the best in the World.
He attended the much less prestigious undergraduate program at the Wharton school, where he got a bs in economics, not business.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 30, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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Many states are getting screwed out of taxes because of online commerce.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 30, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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I dumped Amazon Prime when I started price shopping and discovered that Ebay is consistently cheaper than Amazon. Amazon can be quicker but it is rarely necessary to get 2 day delivery.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 30, 2018 - 08:20am PT
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want to bet its market rate?
$50/night when he can actually find a receipt or cancelled check.
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