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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2016 - 10:30am PT
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GCF, Cool! Thanks!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 17, 2016 - 10:37am PT
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Oh no fear, we would never think for ourselves!!
Oh no!! Why would we dare to think for ourselves?
NOOOOO!!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 17, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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But if they do? I'll be registering as a muslim. And if some Federal bureaucrat decides that "I can't be" muslim? I'll then sue to make them do it (that type of lawsuit is called a writ of mandamus - a court telling a government what it must do under the law).
IIRC, when Bela Bartok found out he was not on the Nazi list of "degenerate" composers, he insisted on being included.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:00am PT
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Nov 17, 2016 - 10:25am PT
The need to constantly post links of what other people think on common topics is fascinating.
That's deep.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:20am PT
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The term evidence based reporting comes out of the peer reviewed academic field. There is a clear dividing line between reporting data without bias and subjective analysis.
I agree wholeheartedly.
As a small-town lawyer, I go to trial on behalf of clients. I understand the term "evidence-based" because, if I didn't, I'd get my ass laughed out of court.
I base my political opinions on evidence (combined with morality; in this case, my morality). I have little respect for those (of any political orientation) who "rely" on fake news. People who rely on fake news make decisions based on emotion, although they've got themselves convinced that they are making decisions based on "facts."
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:24am PT
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The term evidence based reporting comes out of the peer reviewed academic field. There is a clear dividing line between reporting data without bias and subjective analysis.
I think they used to teach this concept in journalism courses. Fact-based media still understand it.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:33am PT
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In my very jaded experience, evidence doesn't matter in family court. My lawyer actually told me that my evidence doesn't matter because the judge expects that both sides are lying. There is a judge that is frustrated to be there dealing with the issue, and they get pissed and yell at both sides when they don't settle on their own. In family court, evidence is not measured based on truth or accuracy. It is based on how many inches of paper you file.
Just as our politics are post-truth, so are the court rooms (at least family court). If you have enough money to play the legal game and dress your b.s. in the proper format with the proper keywords, it doesn't matter if what you are presenting is laughably absurd.
Same thing with criminal courts in terms of getting a D.A. to prosecute a case, or getting detectives to gather the evidence or question the criminals to get a statement on record. If the criminal can afford experienced lawyers, then the D.A. won't risk messing up their conviction rate, and detectives will leave them alone.
At least these have been my very limited experiences with our legal system in the last decade.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:36am PT
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It seems likely that Trump and his cabal will spend much of the next four years being laughed out of court. The trouble being that they'll do a lot of damage in the meantime.
They're also going to find out the hard way that they are governed by a lot constraints, and have far less freedom to act than they fantasize about.
Anyway, from a local perspective, the US election almost guarantees that Canada's Liberal government will be re-elected in 2019.
I think that's largely true.
Foreign policy worries me. We will find out soon how he deals with a nuclear North Korea.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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It seems likely that Trump and his cabal will spend much of the next four years being laughed out of court
fascists care not for courts, martial law will be declared and the military will take over
Yos will be a Trumpland amusement park, mark my words
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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mtnyoung, as part of my ongoing efforts to engage in healthy debate with those whose views are not mine, I am curious which publications you rely on for the criteria of evidence based reporting.
Here is my list, for sure all of them stray from the ideal but I do enjoy their work overall.
GCF,
What a nice question to ask, thanks.
It's a long list.
Start with my life-long passion for the study of military history. I own nearly 6,000 non-fiction, military history titles. I've read almost all of them.
Next, my training as a lawyer also plays a role in my analysis of politics and current events.
1. As far as specific news sources, I watch almost no TV, but I read a lot. Including, in print:
 Time Magazine (weekly);
The Economist (weekly);
Two local newspapers (daily);
Two professional journals (containing legal current events/political issues such as Supreme Court decisions and trends; I read these periodically);
National Geographic (yes, it's a news source, and I love it);
Several periodicals from environmental organizations (for example, the NRDC, and the Wilderness Society);
Lots and lots of books (mostly on military history; next to climbing, it's my favorite subject to read about - I am fairly shallow).
2. I listen to NPR while I drive. I love and listen to Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History," and some of his "Common Sense" podcasts.
3. I look at lots and lots of sources on the internet, including Time's home page, CNN, FOX, BBC, Al Jazeera (less after it went to Al Jazeera USA, and none now), and links from many, many sources including posts to Facebook (I'm not on Facebook, but I go on my wife's site). And Supertopo's political threads. I read many of the linked stories from these threads; some of these are good and some are just obvious trash. But they are extremely diverse and these Supertopo political threads are a great resource that way.
My review of "wack-nut" sources is almost all done on line.
Sorry for the wall of text, that's probably a longer answer than you wanted ;)
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:56am PT
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...as part of my ongoing efforts to engage in healthy debate with those whose views are not mine...
I see this in your posts GCF, and I appreciate it.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 17, 2016 - 11:58am PT
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BREAKING NEWS!!
Ted Cruz fan, Trump dick smoker, tells supertopo to grow up.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
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NutAgain!,
I don't do family law (wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole).
It's the most emotional type of law, and it lends itself to mistruths and factual manipulation. I feel sorry for the judges who hear family law cases (and remember, only very, very few family law cases go to trial; in my experience most people who've come to divorce act reasonably, although two sides have to be reasonable for there to be a reasonable resolution).
I also don't do criminal law - I'd be lost in a criminal law courtroom (they "talk" by referring to numbers all the time).
My experience trying cases is in general, civil law (regarding real estate, contracts, homeowner's associations and personal injuries, things like that). In cases like these (at least), evidence, demonstrable truth, is all that judges let in.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
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Jody,
From my limited exposure to criminal law courts, I agree that this is by far the norm:
Not always true. I have a very good friend who is a D.A. and he always does what is right and lets the results fall where they may.
And BTW, are you and I on the same thread? To whom does this comment apply?
You folks are cracking me up. You can't be serious. It is rather predictable...don't get your way and you throw hissy fits like spoiled rotten little kids.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
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Surviver bleats:
BREAKING NEWS!!
Ted Cruz fan, Trump dick smoker, tells supertopo to grow up.
Maybe get outdoors for a bit... take a rest, take a picture, look for a job, put on a headband, plant a beet... something besides continuous SuperTopo?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
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...love that you enjoy Nat Geo! As a kid that was my go-to for learning about the world, and in fact the Rowell article on RNWFHD was a real catalyst for getting into climbing.
I've still got that issue!
...I'll give your lad trump....
I assume that the word "your" above is directed at those who support/supported him, and not at me?
Hopefully no-one here on this site has mistaken me for a Trump supporter (OHGODOHGODOHGOD no).
Among other things, I could never support a president who can speak a whole paragraph and not say anything. This "ability" of his really bugs the crap out of me.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
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I've still got that issue!
I thought I did, too, and I was looking for it last night. Sad to say, I think I finally dumped it. Interestingly enough, I was in the Valley intending to do the RNWFHD when, heading to Camp 4, I saw Galen, Dennis and Doug carrying haul sacks and hiking eastward. When they told me where they were going, we changed our plans.
I do, however, still have the National Geographic edition that has a picture of Nelson rapping to Salathe Ledge after the FA of the Lost Arrow Chimney.
Incidentally, there is an alternative explanation to rising sea levels, contained in the Journal of Irreproduceable Results. Sea levels aren't really rising. Rather, Continents are sinking because of increasing weight caused by the failure of anyone to destroy any issues of National Geographic.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
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OK, you guys. Be honest. You read National Geographic because it had pictures of nekkid wimmin. Didn't you?
No, but I did buy (and, I hope, still have) a Sports illustrated Swimsuit Edition from the 1980's because it contained an article by Eric Pearlman about climbing the seven classic north faces of the Alps (i.e., the Eiger, Matterhorn, Walker Spur, Dru, Piz Badile and Cima Grande).
Really.
John
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 17, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
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OK, you guys. Be honest. You read National Geographic because it had pictures of nekkid wimmin. Didn't you?
Nah, I've been going to Trump campaign web sites for that lately ;)
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