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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sorry but that's fckin st00pid. Lets see if i can do a spiral right next to a tree @140mph. what could go wrong?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2016 - 07:19am PT
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From the article about Polli's death:
The World Wingsuit League called Polli's death a "huge loss" for the community, saying his legacy "continues to inspire new generations of jumpers for years to come."
I'm sure that's true. along with a growing pile of body bags.
BAd
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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The World Wingsuit League called Polli's death a "huge loss" for the community, saying his legacy "continues to inspire new generations of jumpers for years to come."
Tony Uragallo worked with Polli and designed some wingsuits for the skydiver, calling him "special" and "way spiritual" — the type of friend who'd encourage those around him to "dance the night away" and will be sorely missed.
"In jumping he was fearless — or looked it, at least, doing stunts that took my breath away," Uragallo told NBC News in an email.
Polli was asked a few years ago about the dangers of his pursuits — and he told an interviewer that he took comfort in preparing "extremely well" for his wingsuit jumps.
"I never went out there to risk my life," he told the Deutsche Welle newspaper in 2013. "To be quite honest: I am extremely scared of dying."
Saddened to hear a good friend Alexander Polli died yesterday doing waht he loved. Rest in peace big man.
All said.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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tradmanclimbs... you're right. Just as stupid of doing Baintha Brakk peak with 1-2 60 meters of rope, light rack and minimal food or gear????
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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don't know what you are talking about?? High altitude mountainereing is pretty f*#king stupid but still not in the same league as these squirl suit bone heads. Just think what the conversation would be if there were only a coupple thousand climbers in the world and they were dying at the rate the sqirl suits die... There are probobly over a million climbers in the world and we are nowheres near the death rate of the few thousand squirl suiters.....
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Trad,
numbers are honestly irrelevant. The Commitment is the EXACT SAME.
BASE " stunts " as it were, are no different from " Climbing stunts. " Tragic for those leaving, those left behind.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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numbers are everything. your chances of pulling it off are in the numbers. If the numbers suck and you try it anyways you get the stupid dead person of the week award...... Does not matter which adventure sport, you make decisions based on your chances of comming out on the right side of the dirt. when I solo 5.7 rock or grade 3 ice the numbers are in my favor. I do not fall at those grades. were I to solo 5.10 rock or 5+ ice the numbers would suck and I would be stupid to do it. I ocasionaly fall on 5.10 and sometimes I run out of gas and hang on 5+ ice. Jump out of an airplane with a reguler chute and the numbers are pretty damn good. Go proxy flying in a wing suit and the numbers suck.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Always the reference class problem.
If you correctly identify your reference class as Alex Honnold, go have some fun soloing something hard. If you're wrong about your reference class, maybe you end up dead. If you correctly identify your reference class as Bachar, maybe you also need to correctly identify the reference class of the day.
Humans as a reference class are not that great at identifying the correct reference class, but we're really good at believing that we can.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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You can't always win which is what makes it exciteing but if you play a game that is exciteing but actually has pretty decent numbers then your chances of getting a damn good thrill without getting killed are pretty good. If you play a game that has terrible numbers your chances of getting seriously f*#king dead increase dramaticaly.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Driving a car has pretty good numbers, but a three year old driving a car probably doesn't. Overall, not that many three year olds drive cars, so if we just go by the "people driving a car" reference class, a three year old might have an easy time deluding themselves. Maybe more three year olds get hurt on the monkey bars than driving a car, but that doesn't mean driving the car is safer for them.
I agree with what you're saying in the abstract, but in reality, IMHO, always the reference class problem.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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My understanding of the current rash of base fatalities is that it's easy to get a sense of expertise in the field (sky diving, BASE jumping, squirrel suits, etc.) partly because the skills are not that difficult to attain, and it's more a matter of judgment, and it's become "normalized" by GoPro videos etc., so that people are underestimating the challenges (putting it in a lower risk reference class than they should) and overestimating their level of ability (putting themselves in a higher ability/judgment reference class than they should).
The "numbers" that we observe are a reflection of the actual danger combined with people's perception of that danger - they're not just a reflection of the actual risk. Sure, here on a climber's site, we each could die, if we don't get it right, but in terms of the actual risk that we face, I expect that I'm probably more at risk with a rope than Honnold is without one.
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jstan
climber
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Go out and observe how soaring birds are affected by the chaotic patterns of fluid flow found in the air. Jumping at dusk when there is a large change in solar flux is probably not a good idea if you have a limited reserve of air space. But if you have a computer capable of 17 petaflops in your squirrel suit.......
Unfortunately those three computers have other work to do.
Edit:
Soaring birds have pretty well worked out the odds. Do you suppose the first pterosaurs got a lot of criticism about the dangers of their flying? In a billion years or so the squirrel suiters will probably work it out.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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airplane pilots have to deal with the phenomenon known as "ground effect". Within 13ft of the ground the airplane can act drastically different than say, at a 110ft.
i wonder if these close prox squirrel suiters are experiencing this phenomenon?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Its really simple. Fly close to hard sh#t at high speed in a vehicle with crappy steering and no brakes and you will die sooner rather than later.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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tradman, you honestly fail to see the similarity of commitment between the two disciplines??
You can focus on the number of participants, number of deaths, ect..... but both have the same level of commitment. Both take away safety margins decreasing your chance of survival.
But you go ahead and focus on the numbers. And ignore the fundamental and universal similarities :)
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2016 - 07:22am PT
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Hey, Jim: Sorry about that. It was a direct quote from the article. Not my quotes. I'll fix the post, although I did say where it came from. Of course it was a huge loss, no doubt. Unfortunately, as I said, more will follow.
BAd
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Current wingsuit design(s) must lack something.
With better designed suits, the margins will just get smaller. Results will be the same.
It's the obstacles, these guys are running a gauntlet. They wait to see the individual lashes around the whites of the eyes of their enemy. Calling them brave doesn't do justice, they are far beyond brave. The skill and commitment of the Kamikaze pilots comes to mind, but no, these fellows are not following orders or fulfilling a religious duty. This is individual free will.
It may be magic. Magicians pursuing an art. A craft where at the most critical of moments the practitioner thwarts the laws of physics and bends the rules of science. Like the terminally ill patient waiting for unanswered prayers to be fulfilled, they finally succumb.
The difference is that the disease hunted down the terminally ill, whereas proximity flyers are the hunters, stalking the finest of lines between life and death. A line measured in milliseconds.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Actually no. It's nothing like climbing. These guys are soloing at and beyond their red point limits every flight. I don't personally know A single climber who does that.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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airplane pilots have to deal with the phenomenon known as "ground effect". Within 13ft of the ground the airplane can act drastically different than say, at a 110ft.
i wonder if these close prox squirrel suiters are experiencing this phenomenon
Ground effect is the result of higher pressure under the wing, it is basically a "bubble" of air. The effect is felt roughly one wingspan distance from the ground. This effect is what causes planes to float down a runway when trying to land. The effect is quite dramatic in small planes. Since wingsuits generate little lift the effect would be minimal and would only be felt a few feet off the deck. In fact ground effect would tend to lift the flyer as he passed above an obstruction
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