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Sanskara
climber
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Mar 27, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
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Hahahhahahahhahhahhahhahhahhah I can't stop.....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Mar 27, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
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Tvash, you're using the typical, 'you're a racist', meme. It's predictable.
Most people want marriage and civil unions separated by definition, but granting equal rights to both. And it almost is hypocritical to my previous replay, unless you dig into the history of marriage and the meaning it has to Western culture, and even more so to Eastern cultures.
Is it any wonder that most AMericans want marriage defined as being between a man and woman. Civil unions are granted to those whose choose to not use the Church. It is sacred to the Church.
The 'equal protection' arguement is bullshit because gays and others are still granted the same 'equality' by the Fed and the States with civil unions.
Can we be honest that this is an intentional slam on the Christian Church, as usual. To force abortion, contraceptives, gays, et al. onto people who don't want it.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Mar 28, 2014 - 12:07am PT
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Go to your church and leave the rest of us and our laws out of it.
1st Amendment.
I'm against bigotry. The Christians are it's number one practitioners in America. They seek to impose that on everyone. It's the Borg with a crucifix.
F*#k that. No cults and the human misery, ignorance, and discrimination that they cause, thanks.
When Christians start acting Christ-like and keep their cult out of public policy, I'll be fine with them.
Live and let live.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Mar 28, 2014 - 12:31am PT
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Go to your church and leave the rest of us and our laws out of it.
1st Amendment.
Coundn't agree more!
I'm against bigotry. The Christians are it's number one practitioners in America. They seek to impose that on everyone. It's the Borg with a crucifix.
F*#k that. No cults and the human misery, ignorance, and discrimination that they cause, thanks.
I wonder if you would say that about Muslims? Do you know how many provisions we have in place to 'accommodate' their religious beliefs? Do you know how far we have bent over for THAT religion?
When Christians start acting Christ-like and keep their cult out of public policy, I'll be fine with them.
Live and let live.
That's usually how Christians roll. It becomes a problem when the Federal gov't start telling Christians how they are to act, and how they have to practice their healthcare.
Wouldn't you call that contrary to the 1st Amendment?
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Mar 31, 2014 - 11:05am PT
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^^ Thanks, Tvash! Good summary of Canada under the Harper regime - Canada, the environmental pariah!
Harper is a (not so undercover) Christian, who thinks God is watching over his rule.
Btw, every Canadian I know calls it the tar sands.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Mar 31, 2014 - 11:14am PT
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I'm against bigotry. The Christians are it's number one practitioners in America. They seek to impose that on everyone. It's the Borg with a crucifix.
I wonder if you would say that about Muslims? Do you know how many provisions we have in place to 'accommodate' their religious beliefs? Do you know how far we have bent over for THAT religion?
It becomes a problem when the Federal gov't start telling Christians how they are to act, and how they have to practice their healthcare.
Wouldn't you call that contrary to the 1st Amendment?
I oppose bigotry wrapped in any cloak, religious or otherwise. Muslims in America are not actively advocating in any measurable way for repressive laws based on cult doctrine. Christians are. That, and reread the 1st sentence: "In America". We don't have many Muslims in America, and I'm not nearly as familiar with that religion as practiced here as I am with Christianity - of which I am very familiar, having been raised one, etc.
The seconds sentence is pure Newspeak. Christianity seeks to prevent 6% or so of the American population from marrying the person they love. There is zero imposition when a gay couple in Seattle gets married to a Baptist Church in Mobile. Zero. And there is no law, existing or proposed, that forces any church to marry anyone with its walls. That is a strawman.
But hospitals and businesses aren't churches. They serve the general public, and, in the case of hospitals, are very often the only entity in a region that provides critical services. They are therefore appropriately subject to a variety of laws - including anti-discrimination laws. Just as Denny's must serve African Americans, so must Hobby Lobby sell model trains to gay people and hospitals provide all the services required by the ACA. That is the promise of the 14th Amendment. To enable religions to cherry pick the laws they want to adhere to would be a gross violation of the 1st Amendment's Establishment Clause, given that all such businesses maintain numerous relationships (grants, taxes, regulations, contracts) with the Federal Government.
I should also mention the gross injustice of religious tax exemption here. Why should a Catholic hospital chain use the huge financial advantage of religious tax exemption to gobble up disadvantaged private hospitals - then add insult to injury buy cutting the vital family planning services that private hospital once provided the community?
Hey religions: If the primary purpose of your organization is worship - hands off. Do what you like.
If, however, the primary purpose is commercial profit or providing services to the community - hospitals, etc - sticking a cross on the side of the building should not enable you to discriminate and cherry pick the laws you like while ignoring those you don't. Guess what - you get to act just like your non-religious competitors. Anything else constitutes the State favoring religiously owned businesses, and that's classic Establishment of Religion - and not what this secular democracy is about.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Mar 31, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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It's a sidebar - with apologies.
I'm just rather, um, passionate with regards to beating back centuries of bigotry cloaked in religion in this country.
We can treat each other better than that. We've put up with religious bigotry for too long - that once sacred cow is now being seen for what it has been all along, and the picture is not pretty.
If you advocate having the State prohibit a couple you'll never meet 3000 miles away from marrying each other, you're not exactly practicing 'live and let live' - at all.
That, in fact, is exactly what bigotry does - it inflicts human misery on others - it is a tangible, physical manifestation of hatred, but it always has an excuse - the most well-worn of which "God Told Us To".
Carry a cross wrapped in a flag as one might - injustice is injustice.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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May 12, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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ah, imminent domain. put there to show you that you truly don't own the land, even if you have the title in your hand. Talk about a loop hole.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 15, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 15, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Sweet oil spill in Glendale today.
Few people know about the crude oil pipeline running from Bakersfield to Long Beach. It runs right through the nicer middle class neighborhoods in Burbank.
Fortunately the "malfunction" was in an industrial area in Glendale and not some canyon out there where it would have run for hours before being discovered.
Pretty big mess. Sprayed crude all over the outside of this strip joint. Lotta joke potential there.
I still don't get why they don't just refine it at the edge of the oil field.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 15, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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where it would have run for hours before being discovered.
Al those pipelines are monitored 24/7 by SCADA systems.
The pressure drop and shut down would have occurred in milliseconds.
The volume of the spill was determined by the volume and grade (elevation differences) of the pipe.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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May 15, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
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Tvash,
I'm against bigotry. The Christians are it's number one practitioners in America. They seek to impose that on everyone. It's the Borg with a crucifix.
Well, that's an easy statement to make, "I'm against bigotry". Feel good about yourself now after insinuating that all Christians are bigots? Do you know that Christians are the #1 bigots in the country? How?
I oppose bigotry wrapped in any cloak, religious or otherwise. Muslims in America are not actively advocating in any measurable way for repressive laws based on cult doctrine. Christians are. That, and reread the 1st sentence: "In America". We don't have many Muslims in America, and I'm not nearly as familiar with that religion as practiced here as I am with Christianity - of which I am very familiar, having been raised one, etc.
So you're saying that American Christians are more bigoted than Muslims? Did you know that Muslims actually kill Christians and homos just based on their proclivities on a far wider scale? Even in the US and Canada! They're called 'honor-killings'.
The seconds sentence is pure Newspeak. Christianity seeks to prevent 6% or so of the American population from marrying the person they love. There is zero imposition when a gay couple in Seattle gets married to a Baptist Church in Mobile. Zero. And there is no law, existing or proposed, that forces any church to marry anyone with its walls. That is a strawman.
Kinda true. Are you familiar with Federalism? That is, the right of a State to modify it's constitution if it doesn't violate Federal law? I think you are calling the majority of Californians bigots as well.
But hospitals and businesses aren't churches. They serve the general public, and, in the case of hospitals, are very often the only entity in a region that provides critical services. They are therefore appropriately subject to a variety of laws - including anti-discrimination laws. Just as Denny's must serve African Americans, so must Hobby Lobby sell model trains to gay people and hospitals provide all the services required by the ACA. That is the promise of the 14th Amendment. To enable religions to cherry pick the laws they want to adhere to would be a gross violation of the 1st Amendment's Establishment Clause, given that all such businesses maintain numerous relationships (grants, taxes, regulations, contracts) with the Federal Government.
Why are so many others granted exemptions to the ACA as well? And I think a private business does have the right to refuse business on religious grounds. Muslim cabbies in New York? Amish? Just not those stupid bigoted Christions?
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okie
Trad climber
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May 15, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
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The Koch Bros stole oil from the Osage Indians in Oklahoma. They are thieves. Most of us would be in prison if we stole but on a macro scale it's forgivable in this country by the powers that be. Obama has actually prosecuted less white collar crime than dubya did.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 15, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
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Yeah, let's make sure Warren's trains keep moving.
WASHINGTON — More crude oil was spilled in U.S. rail incidents last year than was spilled in the nearly four decades since the federal government began collecting data on such spills, an analysis of the data shows.
Including major derailments in Alabama and North Dakota, more than 1.15 million gallons of crude oil was spilled from rail cars in 2013, according to data from the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.
By comparison, from 1975 to 2012, U.S. railroads spilled a combined 800,000 gallons of crude oil. The spike underscores new concerns about the safety of such shipments as rail has become the preferred mode for oil producers amid a North American energy boom.
The federal data does not include incidents in Canada where oil spilled from trains. Canadian authorities estimate that more than 1.5 million gallons of crude oil spilled in Lac-Megantic, Quebec, on July 6, when a runaway train derailed and exploded, killing 47 people. The cargo originated in North Dakota.
Nearly 750,000 gallons of crude oil spilled from a train on Nov. 8 near Aliceville, Ala. The train also originated in North Dakota and caught fire after it derailed in a swampy area. No one was injured or killed.
The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration doesn’t yet have spill data from a Dec. 30 derailment near Casselton, N.D. But the National Transportation Safety Board, which is the lead investigator in that incident, estimates that more than 400,000 gallons of crude oil were spilled there. Though no one was injured or killed, the intense fire forced most of Casselton’s 2,400 residents to evacuate in subzero temperatures
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/01/20/215143/more-oil-spilled-from-trains-in.html#storylink=cpy
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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May 15, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
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The Koch Bros stole oil from the Osage Indians in Oklahoma. They are thieves. Most of us would be in prison if we stole but on a macro scale it's forgivable in this country by the powers that be. Obama has actually prosecuted less white collar crime than dubya did.
Do you have anything to say about Clinton/Gore selling off the Strategic Naval Oil Reserves at Elk Hills? It was a "no-bid" deal to Occidental, Gore's former buddies.
Conflict of interest much?
And I'm sure the Osage Indians were duly compensated for the oil. Stealing?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 16, 2014 - 02:05am PT
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oxi out bid like 20 companies, including Chevron et al. What no bid contract? TGT is right about the trains, pipelines are much safer. That said, chemicals WAY more hazardous than crude are moved around by train every day.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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May 16, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
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ontheedge, you're correct that Oxi was the high bidder, but to replace the oil would have cost double. It was a sweet deal for Oxi, bad deal for gov't and taxpayers.
“The government had already decided to sell out, regardless of what they thought they could get . . . because it was a political decision,” said Jerome Hinkle, a senior planner in the Department of Energy’s Office of Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves. That office, known as NPOSR, was the DOE office in charge of Elk Hills; it continues to manage other properties originally set up to ensure naval fuel supplies. “Given the narrow conditions of the way the auction was conducted, yes, Oxy paid a fair price,” Hinkle said of the deal. “But given its replacement value and what the government could have gotten [the public didn’t necessarily get a good deal].”
from here; http://www.publicintegrity.org/2000/10/27/3260/did-taxpayers-lose-deal-oil-field
Gore's a hypocrite.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 16, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
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Look up Tea Pot Dome if you want to see a scandal (1920s). The government is now divesting that field as well cause it's not economic for the gov to operate it. I only ever heard about any of this on npr the other day.
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