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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 23, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
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I won't repeat all but a little of my previous post, but I suspect we're most all in agreement that it's really this simple:
An overwhelming percentage (99, 99.5?) of our most gifted athletes do not choose to pursue the path that leads to being a professional soccer player. They just don't.
Again, it's pretty telling that Klinsmann went outside the U.S. to find a good chunk of this team, players not a product of the U.S. youth development system.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 23, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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The Dutch looked beatable today. . .
the score doesn't reflect how Chile dominated them. . .
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 23, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Man, that Croatian keeper sucks! And then his guy makes a nice run to the
end line and his three mates stand there and wait for his cross?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 23, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
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By talent pool, dear Ward, I didn't mean overall population, rather the amount of kids who are actively playing youth soccer. Parents have been funneling their kids into Youth Soccer Leagues for two decades now, and here in So Cal, EVERY park and patch of grass is occupied with kinds playing soccer. I understand that the best talent gets siphoned off to other games, but still, the girls have won a few world championships so far. The dudes have to step up.
JL
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jun 23, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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America's demographic and economic advantages don't mean diddly because soccer is not American DNA. It's merely regarded as a safe, sububanized, non-threatening activity for the kids. Ultimately in the States, NOGAF.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 23, 2014 - 04:23pm PT
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It's not in the American DNA. But why have the ladies done so well?
I think the game has not caught on big because there is not enough scoring.
JL
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 23, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Parents have been funneling their kids into Youth Soccer Leagues for two decades now, and here in So Cal, EVERY park and patch of grass is occupied with kinds playing soccer. I understand that the best talent gets siphoned off to other games, but still, the girls have won a few world championships so far. The dudes have to step up
Yes, PARENTS have been funneling their kids into this, and every patch of grass you see covered is covered by the organized youth leagues that parents are funneling their kids into. But that's completely different than what happens in so-called "soccer" countries. There, kids are out playing every sort of pick-up game imaginable in whatever plot is available, concrete, sand, dirt, grass, whatever. Just like we used to do in baseball. John, I suspect I'm a little older than you but not that much older. Did you not first take up baseball in pick-up and street games in your neighborhood? The talent, desire and even many fundamentals and strategies were first developed there. Youth leagues and then on up through high school had a huge leg up in terms of development because of the drive and love for the game these kids brought with them. With few exceptions, that's not the dynamic in our youth soccer. Again, how many pick-up soccer games, completely devoid of adult influence or control, do you see on those fields? Short of ethnic neighborhoods with a cultural love of soccer, you will see almost no pick-up games.
That's the difference. The youth academies in Europe and Latin America can pick from kids who've already been busting their asses to learn the game and have shown at least their potential, along with a whole lot of touch, control and creativity. Parents can't force that hunger, drive, desire and love for the game on their kids. Granted, many of our kids like the game, but few hunger to excel at it.
That said, it could be in our DNA if the popularity of watching the game increases with our kids and the perceived $ opportunities and, more important, opportunities for glory playing a game you love, continue to build. Which is why women's soccer has done so well, there aren't nearly as many pro opportunities for great female athletes so soccer has risen to near the top of list if you're a great female athlete. It's nowhere near the top if you're a great male athlete.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 23, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
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you will see almost no pick-up games.
I've been saying that until I'm blue in the face. So there I was in the
southernmost city on earth, Ushuaia, Argentina. It was blowing half a gale
and in the yard of this tenement was this 10 year old working, and I do mean
working, on his game. Did I mention it was spitting rain with a wind chill
of about 38F? Yeah, that's why they produce the likes of Messi...
And did you see the helo shot of the favela perched on the cliff above Rio
with the futbol mini-pitch hacked out of the hillside? That took some
serious desire to kick a ball around. They even scrounged some fencing so
they wouldn't lose their only ball over the edge.
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pc
climber
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Jun 23, 2014 - 05:16pm PT
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I'm not quite sure where the talk of the US Men "failing" or "choking" is coming from.
They're tied for first in arguably the toughest group in the World Cup this year. They're brimming with young, super exciting talent. They have a better chance of going deep this World Cup than ever before.
Example, DeAndre Yedlin, 20yo speedster for US, comes on with 20 minutes to play, has 4-5 very good touches, an assist, and injected incredible pace on the right wing. I can't wait to see him in a similar role against Germany.
Cheers,
pc
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
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Let's convert todays games for us Americans. Brazil won 28-7, Mexico won 21-7, the Dutch 14-0, and Spain 21-0.
If I knew how the hell NASCAR scored I'd convert to that for even more points.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 23, 2014 - 06:10pm PT
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Justin, just multiply by four cases of Bud Light.
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 23, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
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QITNL,
My guess would be that you don't see nearly as many Latinos on our national team for the same reason you don't see as many in our youth leagues, especially the "club" teams, of which there are hundreds and hundreds in San Diego and I'm sure up your way. While these clubs will give the occasional scholarship to a kid in need, they're far, far more about making money than developing talent. I get it, because if I could make a living coaching soccer, hell, I'd take that over my job, but these clubs charge an average of $1,250 a year, which doesn't include tournament fees and covers only summer practices and fall league play. You simply don't see enough kids from poorer neighborhoods (many of which likely have plenty of soccer talent and then some). As you yourself pointed out, the pick-up games you see are mostly Latino kids. A soccer academy dedicated solely to grooming the most talented kids in our country would be scouting the hell out of those pick-up games and neighborhoods but I doubt that happens here to anywhere near the degree it does in other nations.
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 23, 2014 - 07:42pm PT
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Guess I need to read the article now! But it's not hard to see down here in San Diego so I had to guess it's more than likely a nationwide deal.
It's a little off topic but what I see in these club and travel teams in all sports and both sexes saddens me more than a little. It's not that there aren't some good and dedicated people working within those systems but they are all too much about the money and all too "encouraging" as a result of selling the notion that your kid needs to pick his/her best sport and play it year round. Which is utter nonsense, the money issue completely aside. The myth is being sold (damn effectively) to parents that this is how you create better, more successful athletes, as in the way to varsity in high school, scholarship in college, and contract in pros. It's total bullshit in all team sports, with absolutely no evidence at all that playing one sport only when you're a kid makes you better at it in the long run. And there's a fair amount of evidence that the opposite is true because you become more injury prone and less likely to develop all your overall athletic abilities. But parents are sold this bill of goods that their kid will get left behind if he doesn't get on a club or travel team and play that one sport year round. Cha ching!
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
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Jun 23, 2014 - 06:10pm PT
Justin, just multiply by four cases of Bud Light.
Ha, good one Reilly that actually makes sense.
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Jun 24, 2014 - 07:58am PT
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"....a goalie squad of semi-feral baboons..."
Let's keep the Kardashians out of this, please...
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Jun 24, 2014 - 08:17am PT
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Did I mention it was spitting rain with a wind chill
of about 38F? Yeah, that's why they produce the likes of Messi...
Kids will play any sport for the love of it, here or anywhere else, in any conditions. My kids have been at outdoor soccer camp in mid-July, temps in the high 90's. Last fall, their end of season soccer tournament was so cold that the porta-potties froze and burst the tanks!
No, the reason soccer isn't big here is that the game doesn't lend itself to TV advertising, talent follows the money.
TE
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Jun 24, 2014 - 08:27am PT
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The myth is being sold (damn effectively) to parents that this is how you create better, more successful athletes, as in the way to varsity in high school, scholarship in college, and contract in pros. It's total bullshit in all team sports, with absolutely no evidence at all that playing one sport only when you're a kid makes you better at it in the long run. And there's a fair amount of evidence that the opposite is true because you become more injury prone and less likely to develop all your overall athletic abilities. But parents are sold this bill of goods that their kid will get left behind if he doesn't get on a club or travel team and play that one sport year round. Cha ching!
Well said!! My kid only makes the "B" team at our local, volunteer coached travel club, yet was "selected" for the "A" team at the $2000+/yr club, with promises of future college scholarships and hints of even greater things. If I'm going to spend that kind of money on my kids future, it'll be on education, not sports. There are only 60,000 professional sportspeople in the USA, yet a huge proportion of national income is being wasted in dreams that kids will make the major leagues. For a fraction of the cost and effort they'd be guaranteed a good college education, a upper-middle class income, and we wouldn't be losing STEM jobs abroad.
TE
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2014 - 08:41am PT
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Go Uruguay, Costa Rica, and Ivory Coast.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2014 - 09:54am PT
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I find Uruguay hard to love with their diving. Super Mario has been a big
disappointment. I'd hoped he would take this opportunity to step it up but
he seems content to remain his immature pouty self. Prandelli should jerk him.
Dracula has been quite capricious with his calls - he seems to think it OK
for somebody to leap over the back of his opponent.
I think Pirlo missed on one pass - OMG!
edit:
I see Prandelli listened to me. :-)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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Suarez should be suspended for the rest of the tournament, at the least.
I think the third strike rule should be invoked and he should never play again, ever.
I will be shocked if FIFA do anything substantial, the effing 'Fair Play' hypocrites.
edit:
Italy showed a remarkable lack of urgency towards the end. Despite Suarez'
perfidy a just result. Dracula did a decent job in the end.
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