Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
raymond phule
climber
|
|
Then how could they exchange words and have physical contact with that Sherpa????????
Ya gotta get the story straight.......
Are you playing dumb? Why don't you read the accounts from the western climbers? It is explained there but the clue might be that a sherpa where leading above the belay and then rappelled down.
|
|
orangesporanges
Social climber
|
|
OH! THAT'S WHAT THEY DID!
It's what THEY DID
The commercial expeditions have started bullying people around
Encouraging their Sherpa teams to assert their position
Steck, Moro and Griffiths had already established their camp
They were crossing over to it
A few hours later
A mob of 70+
Many with the faces hidden behind scarves
Attacked them
|
|
orangesporanges
Social climber
|
|
Goren Kropp did NOT use the convenient route created by the Sherpa through the icefall.
Yes. Goran did. No less than on his descent and when acclimatising for his final successful push.
Nonetheless, Goran was one-cool guy. A clearer account would have been great though
|
|
splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
|
|
crankster - It's a f*#king mountain. Anyone is free to climb it by whatever means. Sherpas pride hurt - bfd.
This is a bunch of bullsh#t, man. They have lived, worked, tilled the soil, built the bridges and carved the trails to its foot, and have buried their loved ones (or deposited their ashes) in its shadow for thousands of years. The water that it provides, they and their ancestors have used to bathe their bodies, cook their food, and quench their thirst day after day, year after year, century after century. And it is, and always has been, a revered, respected and an integral part of their culture. IMO, that mountain was created for, and with, their people in mind. What have we done to it over the last half century or more other than litter it with tons of trash and desecrated it with hundreds of dead bodies that have been left to rot on its flanks?
And without their continued guidance, cooperation, labor, skills and support for some 60+ years as Sherpa, guides and porters, no one would have ever gotten within 75 miles of it from the get go, let alone climbed it. Year after year they drag our sorry asses up and down it. And time and time again have risked and paid with their own lives to rescue ours when the going gets ruff, and will most likely do so again and again.
It was their toil, their blood, sweat and tears that paved the way and has made it possible for every single climber that ever has, and ever will, set foot on that mountain or gain its summit, including Ueli Steck. So how about a little damn respect!
From all that I have read, seen and heard, they are a gentle, humble and loving people who welcome one and all. Who could count all the hungry, thirsty and tired sojourners, climbers and trekkers they have not only opened their land, homes, hearts and lives too, but have shed their blood and given their lives for over the years?
Personally, I think they should have kicked some ass a long time ago. Let everyone know who's boss. We have been long overdue for an attitude adjustment! We are playing in their back yard. We are their guests. When guest come to my house and play in my back yard they do so according to my rules. I am pretty lenient, but, I expect some respect. I don't like being taken advantage of. They have been taken advantage of and looked down upon from the beginning, imo!
Therefore, in the very least, I believe an apology and a request for forgiveness is in order, not only from Ueli and his partner, but from the international climbing community in general.
edit: crankster - "I know, you've all got prayer flags..." -- This is about respect, plain and simple. my personal beliefs (i'm a Christian) are besides the point. talk about jumping to conclusions. sheesh. d00d, you've got issues...seek help!
|
|
swam
Social climber
.
|
|
From a social climber’s point of view: I follow expeditions on the Net and recall traumatizing events like the Sharp tragedy, great none lost their lives for that fail:
Ueli/Moro’s team should of officially informed all teams and the leading sherpas that they had set their camp above the set lines. They did not go to the session framing the procedures in a dangerous zone.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
So far this year, two Sherpas have died and one had to be rescued. An ice fall doctor fell into a crevasse early on and just today a Sherpa died of either a stroke or a heart attack at Camp 3. Another one was hit by falling ice on the Lhotse wall (it does happen there) and received a concussion and helicopter rescue from Camp 2.
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
Justification for an elitist attitude is getting slapped, kicked, then booted off the hill.
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
'Mountain climbing' means 'steep hiking with little oxygen'
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
Steve House has some interesting tweets on this incident and his experiences:
from https://twitter.com/stevehouse10
Steve House @stevehouse10 29 Apr
In 2011, while acclimating on the normal route on Makalu we climbed solo next to fixed lines. Lead sherpa threatened us there as well.
Steve House @stevehouse10 29 Apr
There is a gross misunderstanding of modern climbing by most sherpas in Nepal, likely created by Everest and Ama Dablam "guiding".
Steve House @stevehouse10 29 Apr
We explained we were going to attempt to climb new route on West Face. They replied: "If you fix a new route, we will not follow you."
Steve House @stevehouse10 29 Apr
I can see that the Everest workers/sherpas could feel threatened by what they see as the 'emergence' of climbers who don't need them.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
the only reason sherpas are needed to fix lines on a 45-60 degree face [even at altitude] is because the average guided client is not a competent climber. with modern tools and ice screws this face is at best a novice climber's endeavour. for a lot of competent climbers, let alone elite, this is soloing terrain.
With due respect, Nah000, I must disagree. Fixed lines on the Lhotse Face were commonplace before the advent of guided Everest climbing.
Heat from the sun reflecting off the walls of Everest, Nupste and Lhotse melts the surface and refreezing at night results in a thoroughly hardened surface... difficult to arrest a fall. With a fresh snow covering, it's even more treacherous. In 1996 three members of an international expedition, with shallow anchors, were swept to their deaths in a surface layer avalanche.
Sherpas, who shuttle heavy loads to higher camps demand secure fixed lines on the Lhotse Face. Conveying hefty loads, in thin air, on hard ice...will eventuate ankle and calf muscle cramps far more consequential than anything encountered by newbies in a three day snow seminar on Rainier or the Tetons !
Very unhappy that Ueli was beat up at camp 2...the individuals who stoned him should be taken off the mountain. But elite standing does not entitle an individual to sidestep protocol established by the mountain community.
....curious why Nepal doesn't employ liason officers to prevent such events.
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
We didn't use Climbing Sherpas in 1988
But without the help of the locals nothing would of been climbed
We had one Sherpa sirdar/ cook a Mr Pasang Norbu Sherpa who
jspoke Tibetan and basically
Got us to the bc
Edit: DMT, Sorry about that but all four climbers on the 1988 Kangschung face
reached the South col without Sherpa climbing assistance
(That's the back side)
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
So many SSA's (Sniveling Sherpa Apologists) on this post. I know, you've all got prayer flags in your yoga rooms & outdoor kitchens, although you're not a Budhhist (too time consuming). You still have a copy of "Three Cups of Tea", even the one your mother returned to you when she found out it was a fraud. Most of you check in daily with Gwyneth Paltrow's website, goop, right?
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
....curious why Nepal doesn't employ liason officers to prevent such events.
They do. The problem is that they're high caste Hindus who stay in base camp or sometimes one of the lower villages. One of the things the Sherpas have been lobbying for is to have Sherpa laison officers.
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
Well from The Nepal side(south yak) yer
Right on DMT
Cheers
|
|
PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
The old experienced sherpas should kick the the sherpas out that blew it by resorting to violence. That would go a long way to taking responsibility for a big mistake. Throwing rocks into someone's tent to make them come out is absurd. It is one thing to yell at each other etc. but the violence stepped so far over the line that all the other issues become minor.
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
Remember Ron the Everest you are referring to is on piste
|
|
Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
|
|
On piste is like being on a run at the ski area
Off piste is everywhere else
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Interesting point PSP. I've speculated that one of the effects of this episode might be to create a generation gap among Sherpas. More to the point perhaps, will be what the Nepal Mountaineering Association and the guide services who employed them do. The Asian wide preference for anything that is unpleasant is to ignore it and pretend it never happened, so that might well be what occurs here.
I don't think we will know until the Sherpa teams are chosen next spring what the long terms effects will be. The guide company owners are in a tough spot if they try to fire these guys and they seek retaliation although at that point they could be put in jail. Anyway, the repurcussions will be around for a long time.
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
From Lhakpa Sherpa
http://himalayanascent.com/live-blog.html
As eluded by others, the fixing team were venting the frustration of all highly skilled and experienced Sherpa climbers who want to feel more respect from their fellow western colleagues. For years they have quietly suffered and endured arrogance displayed by some western guides and professional climbers.
So what you are saying is that you picked three foreign climbers to vent your years of frustration by assembling a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death. I guess that about says it all.
Hint to everybody else: Stop trying to make excuses for the behavior of the Sherpas. You now have a first-person account from one of the Sherpas who was there.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
bhilden -- " ... a mob of 100 Sherpas and trying to stone them to death.
Lhakpa Sherpa -- "Reports claiming that 100-200 Sherpas attacked the 3 climbers are entirely FALSE."
bhilden you didn't even read.
You made up your own independent story.
Were you there?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!