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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Slayton and others. Perhaps I myself am guilty of being subjective concerning this issue, and even judgmental. It’s not like I despise these three people. But what gets my goat is the crassness in the way they have been trying to raise funds, and not only for their troubles in Peru.
It seems to me, 'seems' I repeat, that they have been wanting people to pay for their holiday, ie a free camper van, is that true? If there was sponsorship involved, okay, but I wonder…
As for their story, something doesn’t sit right with me.
As I mentioned before, I’d like to hear the other side of the story, if possible.
I posted earlier that if I had the resources that a) I could get someone to look after Jennie to b) travel to Peru to c) find an interpreter/local to d) interview the villagers to e) see what their side of the story is… there just about always are two sides (if not more) to a story.
Not blowing my own horn but I have interviewed presidents and prime ministers, captains of industry, union leaders, celebrities, and just ‘regular’ people. I have always strived to be objective in my interviews. That said I have had (dickhead) editors change my copy to their taste/liking/slant. I am never happy with that. I am an experienced interviewer.
There must be some journalist in Peru who could go to the village and interview the villagers. Perhaps there has been such an interview, but I have yet to find it.
The links by chichalimona explains some
http://chichalimona.blogspot.ie/2013/01/what-really-happened-in-ocongate.html
http://www.radiosicuani.org.pe/nacional/item/168-turistas-norteamericanos-fueron-agredidos-por-comuneros-de-pallca-en-quispicanchi.html
http://www.meganoticias.net/cusco-turistas-estadounidenses-fueron-golpeados-por-campesinos-de-ocongate/
http://www.aatccusco.com/boletin.php
Though my Spanish is very rusty.
My gut feeling tells me that there is more to this story than the three travelers are telling.
Cheers, and safe climbing, wherever you are.
Patrick
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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There is an element about the three travelers and their story that reminds me of the inexperienced people who can afford to buy a ticket to climb Everest. They crave the adventure but have no idea what they are really getting into.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Port-a-John
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Well when comments like wanting to go into the village with AK-47s or nukes are posted it certainly is an insight into a twisted thinking that is a bit too common.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Grand Junction
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Just got back 36 hours ago from my 11th trip to south america. Fun place but unless you are in a park situation like Los Glaciers or Torres del Paine I think it is always best to assume someone will want to be paid to camp anywhere below the snow line (particularly in Bolivia or Peru in my experience). Best to be proactive and seek permission and usually offer to not only pay but to also hire a local as a guard as a token of good will if nothing else.
Steve
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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yes philo, because clearly internet comments are insight into the most reasonable sect of society...especially on news articles.
That is not what I am saying.
Why are you making that assessment?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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So the F what? Why does it matter to you?
Maybe because people want to know something about the guys that are asking them for money. It's not as though people haven't gotten a little thick skinned about plays for money that they haven't got.....
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Question for Patrick Compton.
The three have maintained that they didn't set up the donation sites and they did not ask for any funds. So is it correct to assume they didn't ask you to post this thread asking for funds (the link to donating) to help the climbers?
If so, do you worry they'll throw you under the bus for doing this like they did the others who asked for funds?
I ask with genuine curiosity and no animosity toward you or your having posted this.
edit: corrected OP's name from Pat to Patrick. Sorry about that!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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OP (Patrick Compton) wrote:
Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone on here has one.
Fun to watch. Fascinating how many like to criticize the travelers for their belongings and how they acted. Most people reading this would have taken patagucci sh#t, iPhones and pads and reacted to aggression with fear and responded with aggression, just like they did.
Yes, everyone has an opinion, and you have been around the internet long enough to know that posting a thread in the manner you did would bring them out. You posted no connective information, such as "These guys are cousins of my friend" or "I climbed with this guy last year" or "I've been following the blog..."
You posted an incendiary threat title with a link, one that didn't actually click through, if I recall, and nothing more.
***
As for you own opinion(hmmm....) that most here would have behaved in the same way, it's likely not true.
MOST people here are pretty aware that when traveling in remote regions, one should educate themselves appropriately and act in accordance with local customs. I can't for the life of me imagine snapping pictures of a travel partner in markets where we are getting the stinkeye and thinking that makes for an appropriate blog photo.
I haven't traveled much, and never for adventure. But a few years ago my friends suggested we drive down into Mexico (we were in the southwest for winter) and I totally balked at the idea. There was no way I was about to jump in my van and tourist around. And my van was a rolling metal leper(rusty as hell).
If even someone who hasn't even considered travel in Central/South America knows they need keep a respectful, low profile and even with taking care knows they are at risk - oughtn't a group who has planned such a trip for years(as their blog mentioned) have known how to manage themselves?
Looking at the several posts with images I saw from the blog, it appeared to me that these people were very sheltered from being immersed in the cultures and locales they vacationed through.
I think these people will likely have the Aron Ralston experience, wherein after some time spent processing the events which led to their epic, they see that in fact they were completely responsible for it's making.
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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I'd like to offer a little cultural/language clarification:
Small (rural) communities in Latin America often have their own local 'government' in the form of an 'Asociacion' and it typically has elected officers who are prominent members of the community. It would actually be unusual for a rural community to have any constabulary, and it would be very appropriate for the 'Presidente' (of the Asociacion) to be summoned in the night, to investigate potential crime or other issue (trespassing etc.).
While I find it very sad that things went bad so quickly, I also think that there is an underlying thread of cultural arrogance and naivete, which likely contributed to the unfortunate outcome.
Most of all, I find it sad to read the ensuing spray-fest here and elsewhere... I've backpacked and traveled using 'local' transpo in very remote Peruvian areas(and elsewhere in SA and CA), and have only found it to be one of my most memorable (in every positive sense of the word) travel experiences. Interestingly, although I am fully bilingual, I don't speak a word of Quechua, and many of those places I've visited were Quechua-only. But if approached by a legit looking group of people (who probably did speak some Spanish), I would certainly have started by agreeing to identify myself in some way (always carry photocopy of passport).
There is crime everywhere, but I think this was a cultural impasse which quickly escalated into a mini-war - with both sides to blame.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Crimpie, I remember reading that too about the laptop.
John M., perhaps you missed this post from chichalimona
I should clarify that the objective info is coming from the news articles. There are certainly horrific racist comments in response to those news articles! There are also tempered responses. There are also responses leaning in the opposite direction, applauding the people in Pallca and condemning the tourists. It's across the board on opinions no matter where you are!!
Spider Savage, my exact thoughts
t*r, whether you'd like it or not, some photos of physical injuries would go a long way to dispelling the disbelief that some people have.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2013 - 11:07am PT
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Crimpergirl and happygrrl,
I have no connection to anyone involved in the incident.
You posted an incendiary threat title with a link, one that didn't actually click through, if I recall, and nothing more.
the idea that I posted this up with 'viscious' in the title just to bring out crackpots on supertaco is hilarious.
Regardless of the criticism of their motivitives and methods, climbers were whipped. Whipped. That is viscous, so is breaking out teeth with rocks.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Thanks Patrick.
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frank wyman
Mountain climber
helena montana
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Note to self...If ever attacked by angry mob in foreign country....Quickly yell out..."Do what you want to the girl,just don't hurt ME"....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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How else were they going to change their blog to show they are not soliciting for donations if they didn't get a laptop first? Come on, people, think!
SofCookay, I guess Peru is too backwards to have internet cafes. And they said they were staying in an (expensive?) hotel, one would think there would be a net connection there, but of course, i could be wrong.
This story seems to have "divided" some of the Taco Standers, sort of like the Roy Keane/Mick McCarthy fiasco in Saipan in 2002, how it divided a lot of opinions in Ireland.
Hardman Knott, good catch.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Why wasn't this thread enjoined with the America The Ignorant thread?
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Patrick Compton, why you call them "climbers" in the header of this tread? ( they are not)
And is this a pure coincidence that you become supertopian day before?
Are you Jackson Hole local climber? any good routes you can recommend from you home crag?
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2013 - 11:26am PT
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Patrick Compton, why you call them "climbers" in the header of this tread? ( they are not)
And is this a pure coincidence that you become supertopian day before?
Are you Jackson Hole local climber? any good routes you can recommend from you home crag?
how do you know they aren't?
yes.
no, are you?
pretty sweet that I am now under suspicion of some nefarious activity just because I posted this story up. If Jeremy A had posted it, it would be goldplated sticky.
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