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WBraun
climber
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HFCS you are in the wrong thread.
You are supposed to be in the atheist thread proclaiming the glories of everything you've created in the factory of your limited brain.
This thread glorifies the factory of the Supreme unlimited Brain ......
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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The basis for salvation is faith in Jesus...that He died for our sins. Prior to Jesus being crucified, people had faith that Jesus would come in the future and die for our sins, as was taught through prophets. Back then, people looked forward. Since then, people look back at what had already happened.
Thanks for the reply, Jody. But what of all of those people that lived prior to Judaism, before the idea or reality of a Judaic Messiah?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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The Supreme Unlimited Brain who's very existence is based not on any tangible evidence but on great big spoonfulls of "faith."
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WBraun
climber
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Using such a defective argument such as yours, Donini, will equal the same evidence == great big spoonfulls of "faith."
That is not a scientific method.
God is proven using the scientific method.
Western gross materialists do not have the lock on the complete scientific method to make such childish claims.
The western gross material scientists are foolishly trying to frame themselves as Absolute Authority using defective arguments such as yours above and is completely unscientific.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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hfcs,
I am not sure how you surmise so much about my intent, my purpose or myself in general. I do understand that expressing ones thoughts and exacting what is written on your end (or any one who is reading) is difficult through this medium.
I have only one advantage over you and that is that I once held the same philosophy and thoughts on the existence of God as you. Through the gift of grace I now have a different perspective. Don't misinterpret what I am saying by thinking that I have risen above you, it is more of a lateral movement.
By saying this I am not saying I am wiser or better than you. I am merely different in my belief. I can understand and appreciate every aspect of your argument. You are very right in so many instances. You present several questions that I can't answer.
I am not trying to reason through my faith. Faith defies logic and reasoning. It defies any laws of science and worldliness. It is indeed a mystery. I struggle with that on a regular basis.
One point I would like to stress is that you haven't read one word where I belittle anyone for their belief. I haven't mocked anyone and certainly haven't insulted anyone; nor have I tried to persuade anyone on this forum that I am right and they are wrong.
That is one problem that seems insurmountable. My reasoning is this: because I claim to be a Christian doesn't pigeon hole me into a corral of mindless robots. I haven't lost my identity, my mannerisms or my personality.
There is no paradox as far as I am concerned. You are entitled to believe as you wish, you have every right to life to live as you chose, as I do. I still have free will the same as you.
The only people I despise are people with bad manners; more correctly I would say I despise the bad manners of some people. I would like to point out that I was that way before I ever became a Christian. The two really aren't related. I also despise myself or my bad manners when I display them.
I agree with you about the conflict of belief systems in the world. I can't say where it stops because I haven't the faintest clue. I spend hours reading about history and the clashes of humanity never seem to end. Human nature seems to be hell bent on destroying itself or destroying others that are unlike themselves.
As I stated before, I don't have any misgivings about science. I have a degree in science. I still hold on to the knowledge I gained and I still build on it through reading and living. I don't draw a line and box out what is explained by science and what is not.
Reasoning will never stop the circle game of life. Nothing will. We are a race of individuals. I guess that is the beauty and the ugliness of it all.
The reason I stated that I won't debate the issue is because, as I am sure you will agree it gets real ugly on this forum. I don't care to participate in an insult fest. Take R.W.s post up thread. What is the point in that? Of course it has nothing to do with me (I hope) because I have never breached the subject he is making a point about.
You make the point that it is a must for people to come to a round table and work out their philosophical differences. That would be nice; but in reality it won't happen (especially when someone's philosophy is referred to as "bs". I say that it won't happen; at least on this forum. Too many people like to pitch in, with no intention of positive input.
I hope I have clarified a few things for you and you can understand why I chose not to stay in the quagmire that this quandary devolves into.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I'm really impressed by the conversations of this thread! For me I gave my life over to God at the age of 9 at a Billy Graham concert. Since then I've been on and off the path to Holyness. I think the bible is easy to understand if you put yourself in Gods place as a father. I'm 49 with a 6 yr old daughter. When she took something that wasn't hers I didn't stone her or even spank her or scare her into knowing its wrong. Or MAKE her do what "I" think is right. Instead I took her to the and in a very Loving way demonstrated what she was doing to others with this action. Once she understood how she was hurting someone else she immediately said she was sorry. And she was forgiven. If she continues to steal, and has a contrite heart afterwards I'll continue to forgive. But if she determines that there's nothing wrong with stealing, then we'll start down the road of punishment. Christ said the OT ( Law of Mosses) is a "ministry of death" and no one can gain entrance to the Kingdom by it! All are condemned through the Law! The Good News is Jesus sacrificed himself and His blood covers my blemishes in God the Fathers eyes. I just have to ask! Always remember the Bible is a spiritual manual. God doesn't hate the "sinner" He hates the "sin" He doesn't want the whore to be put to death. But the act of selling her body for money and causing men to lust after her. God has given us "free choice" for a time so we can exprement on our own what's good for our children. After all isn't THAT what life is really about?
Family.
Just Sayin IMO
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Blublow, you are truly awash in the blood of Christ, God Jesus, Son of God Jehovah, congrats.
.....
Tobia,
thanks for the elaboration. I should say while I do not respect the traditional literalist beliefs of Christianity incl Virgin Birth of a God, Resurrection, Ascension, Second Coming, Immortality in Heaven By Way of Me, etc. (as I think they're as bogus as the claims or doctrines of astrology; or, yes, bs or horsepucky) outside of ancient Mesopotamian mythology, I do respect your RIGHT to believe as you want. Here I will only add the following: You've mentioned your background in science (physical science or life science and how much I don't know) thus I'll presume you are aware of the overarching story all the sciences taken together along with history reveal about our cosmos and ourselves - so wonderfully expose' ed by the likes of Jacob Bronowski, for example, or Carl Sagan - and dubbed by many The Evolutionary Epic or the Scientific Story. So verily it amazes me (true, admittedly, with some head nodding if not eye rolling) how apparently you've returned to Christianity with your science education to dovetail either the Abrahamic narrative into Scientific Story or the Scientific Story into the Abrahamic narrative. -With the results being that you think this is something of an "advantage" and that the two accounts are not incompatible. But it is what it is, I'll take you at your word. So be it. But for now, I best be moving on, the sun is shining. Thanks again for the elaboration.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks Corn Spew! "Takes 1 2 no one"
Even though the words weren't write; U no what I meant!
U know what mean?
Meditate on it......
His name is Jesus
BB
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Just remember
YER GONNA DIE
SO WHAT? says god.. it's not like you really died... you stupid immortal soul.
Stop being so damn melodramatic!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jody - you are correct.
Splitter- you are correct. as well.
I sincerely apologize to both of you for the assholy tone of my posts.
edited
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Wade Icey,
No problemo, bro! Thanks for clearing things up!
BS -- I have been a born again Christian for over 40 years. I did not say that it was a "particular sect of christianity". It has to do with humanity in general. Jesus said, "You must be born again!" He wasn't speaking to "christians" when he said that. As a human being you are either born again or your not! When you become "born again" you become a Christian.
And as far as your statement "Jesus hates gay people" I just addressed that same statement (Russ Walling declared the same thing) back two pages. Like I told him (I'm not going to repeat it all) Jesus loves everyone! BUT, he hates sin.
Cheers!
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beef supreme
climber
the west
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born again for 40 years? how does that work? I didn't realize that 'born again' was a particular sect of christianity. I thought it was the basic equivalent of hillbilly to country folk.
just showed up by the way- haven't been following this thread, too put off by it. but i'm a little drunk too so there you go. my point is don't take it too personally- sounds like you've met a lot of people or whatever.
Anyhow- so some of you like the christian life.... great. I'd honestly be glad to hear it if I thought that 'christianity' had anything to do with what Christ was all about. I'm making big time stereotypes- I know- it's just been my experience in the past. Jesus hates gay people, Jesus said/ did xyz.... the fact of the matter is that if Jesus really did 'come again' or have his full on second coming- the same people that purport to believe in him would be the first ones to tie him to a stake and burn him as a witch or have him committed.
My completely unsolicited advice? Have some responsibility for your life. Why did homeboy have to die for your 'sins'? That idea, in and of itself, is the complete downfall of modern christianity in my opinion- you are responsible for your actions and your thoughts. Not him, not anyone. You.
Ok, goodnight. Seriously- no hard feeling, i'm tipsy, some of you are hardcore believers that the earth is 6k years old..... zzzzzz. What else is there to say?
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Context and cultural time period is everything. Do a little in depth studying on the subject and then those scriptures won't freak you out so much.
 Total crock of sh#t cop out. You know what Norton posted is straight from the bible. And that people believe that the bible is the word of god. You folks who say this sh#t about context and cultural times are totally full of sh#t. Either that or total hypocrites for saying that you believe whole heartedly in the word of god, but then do not observe as the god you claim to worship has prescribed under penalty of death, distraction, and burning in hell for ever and ever.
Total f*#king cop out. You should just admit that you don't really believe as much as you say you do and just tell everyone that you take the book for its "positive side only" and totally neglect all that negative BS because it's a "different time and a different culture".
f*#king shame
P.S. Locker has posted the only thing worth worshiping.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jody - you have a lot of letting go to do.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jody; Whatever U do don't let go of Jesus! You know that!
Jingus; whatever U do read the New Testament. The Old Testament was a shadow of things to come. Jesus called the Law of Mosses (the OT) a ministrie of death. NO one can gain Gods favor by "doing" anything! Right or wrong. Jesus said "put away the old law I have a new commandment that's to Love EVERYONE as you would want to be Loved. " He also said its easy to Love ur mother or brother, but I challenge U to Love ur enemies. If he socks U in ur left eye turn and let him hit U in the right also. And then Love him. And teach him where he was wrong. It doesn't happen like that very much. I saw it once for real and it was a Beutiful thing! Just imagine if we all took on that attitude. Have patience thru the storm. Then apply Love and words of encouragement to help each other grow! Chopping others down to make oneself feel bigger isn't growing, it's rotting... Away
BB
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Blueblocr...Thanks for the plug...Rottingjohnny
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Welcome Home Splitter!
Just to touch on ur equal amounts of faith idea;
If you only had as much faith as a mustard seed. Matt 17:20
Not found such great faith. Matt 8:10
O you of little faith. Matt 6:30
Increase our faith. Luke 17:5
A man full of faith. Acts 6:5
In proportion to our faith. Romans 12:6
Though I have all faith. 1 cor 13:2
That's all I can find for now. I really feel like my faith has grown gotten stronger and increased as my wisdom increases.
IMO
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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blucock - you're just as FOS as Jody: You know that Jesus, the one you say you worship, said about the OT, but you choose to overlook it?:
Matt 5;17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
If you are not taking everything as given by god then you too are another one of the hypocrites who picks and chooses what they think their god wants of them..
Sorry if I seem to be lumping all you "believers" together as one giant pile, but you all kinda are.
If you are going to hold this book as the sacred word of god, and say that you worship, then you must choose to to adhere to the entire book with all the rules and laws as they are written. You cannot say that what god was talking about in that first book, that wasn't the real part, it was only after he impregnated mary that the real part started.. that's bull sh#t and if you are a genuine person with any morality or a hint of integrity then you see that I ain't lyon.
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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MR. BLUEBLOCR,
i was going by Romans 12:3
"Be honest in the evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given you." NLT
"But to think though as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith." NASB
Yea, I see your point. and i agree. i had just been reading/studying this article that John Piper wrote on Romans 12:3! He made that statement about our/him having the same amount of faith as the patriarchs. but I will go back and reread it. I may have taken it out of context. it is a little confusing to me, i must say. Hebrews 11 is one of my favorite chapters.
EDIT: it would seem to me that Abraham had a great amount of faith. And I agree with you on the faith growing. I know my faith has grown tremendously over the years. just in the fact that God has done everything He has promised. i do know His voice, and anything he tells me He will do or do through me, I wouldn't doubt. In regards to Abraham. God kept a miraculous promise in giving him and Sarah a son at an old age (him 100, Sarah 85). and the promise of a great nation through that son (Isaac).
And, like you said, gaining knowledge through His Word/Bible. And all that has been fulfilled that was prophesied.
What i was referring to, and what i thought John Piper was talking about was the initial amount of faith to believe in God.
Here it is, maybe you could shed some light on what he is saying;
lifegate.hubpages.com/hub/What-is-the-Measure-of-Faith
Oops, doen't seem to be working!!
Just type in to google: Lifegate what is the measure of faith?
and it will take you to that article! it is a really good article about someone standing up and having enough faith that we will have a revival in America!!
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