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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:27am PT
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So is this thread going to end up in court testimony?
Just curious.
Worth asking....
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:55am PT
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Don't worry. Courts don't allow hearsay.
It has to be eyewitness.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 27, 2012 - 10:04am PT
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The hearsay rule only applies when you attempt to admit the testimony for the truth of the facts asserted. When testimony is offered to show state of mind the hearsay rule does not apply. Another exception would be the,statements made by Chris here on ST.
Chris seems like a reasonable guy so I imagine there will be a plea deal. Community service at Facelift? Harsh ;)
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Aug 27, 2012 - 10:10am PT
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Chris seems like a reasonable guy so I imagine there will be a plea deal. Community service at Facelift? Harsh ;)
Community service? How about fixing up some of them Nose anchors; heard some of them weren't so hot....
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 27, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
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Nose anchors not so hot? I thought they'd all been beefed with all the speed climbing stuff....
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 27, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Before I got into climbing, I was a member of the caving club at my school (VA Tech). One of the rules of the club was that you had to go there and sign out on a sheet whenever you went on a caving trip, then sign in when you got back. Otherwise, nobody would have any idea where you were, if you didn't come back. If you didn't sign back in, they would call the emergency number you left, and if that didn't work, organize a rescue. There is no SAR for that sport. The rescues would not be complicated like in Yosemite, but still, the rest of the club would consider you incompetent if there was no good reason for the rescue. Probably would either beat you up or at least make you buy a keg of beer.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Aug 27, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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So the wind is howling, I am at the end of the rope, hanging over a big roof, I have a heavy pack, and there are no anchors within reach. I am yelling this information up to Clint, but he can't hear me because of the wind. I have everything I need to get myself out of this situation, but it is still not a great feeling. I can see how Richard would be totally freaked out. This was Saturday and we were replacing the bolts on the Odessey. This is a route you would not normally rappel, so we were ready for most anything. I was tension traversing down the side of the roof trying to get a directional in when I lost it and went flying off into space. I had the Cell Phone, went down a single strand to locate the next anchor, had a small rack, food and water. The anchor was eventually found, and we got the job done but reascending that rope was work. I do this jugging/rappelling stuff all the time but that kind of jug is never easy. Reading this thread for the last few weeks, it was easy for me to be critical just like many of you. Sure, they were way in over their heads, did lots of dumb stuff, but getting back up over the lip of that roof on a double rope with just prussics would have a bit tiring for me. So there I was, and Chris and Richard was the first thing that flashed into my mind and I laughed out loud. Clint is now Chris and I am Richard. We are an experienced team, I have everything I need, but I was pretty worked by the time I got back up over that roof. I must be a bit of a pussy too. Give us a trip report Richard. It would be great to hear your thoughts while you worked your way back up that rope. You must have been a mental and physical wreck by the time you got over the lip of that roof. Did you just hang from one while you untied the other to get it over the lip? Did you have any back-up? Tell us your story.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 27, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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I apologize for calling Richard a pussy. That was uncalled for. I owe him a beer on the bridge for that crack.
I verily believe he took the easy way out, however, knowing that rescue was the easier option to actually taking responsibility for his situation, and making the significant effort to solve the problem and extract himself from his dilemma.
I stand by the rest of my post, though.
Can anyone provide a link to his Facebook page, please?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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Kudos, I think people get 75% their jerk points if they apologize and mean it
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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For them to recover from their mistake and continue down the Nose would have been quite a feat.
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crasic
climber
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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For them to recover from their mistake and continue down the Nose would have been quite a feat.
How so? Going off route on a long rappel that you've never done is practically expected.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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I hear they are going to attempt Astroman in mid-Winter.
In fine style, an onsight rappel, awesome
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 27, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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I have to laugh at the "45 pound" pack though.
What the hell was in that thing!
I have all the cams, pins, beaks, nuts, misc, 80 biners, my harness, both sets of aiders, both sets of hooks and my hammer; most of the hardware I'm going to use this fall on Lost in America and it weighs barely more than 45 pounds! (Weighed on a scale, +\- 8 oz accurate)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 27, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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Miscellaneous thoughts
WTF were you thinking??>>??
OK, now to be serious.
Getting stuck or stranded is a common cause of rescue, even on "easy" rappels. See this year's Accidents in North American Mountaineering - 2012.
Or see what Roger Brown, with a LOT of experience on big rappels said upthread:
Clint is now Chris and I am Richard. We are an experienced team, I have everything I need, but I was pretty worked by the time I got back up over that roof. I must be a bit of a pussy too. Give us a trip report Richard. It would be great to hear your thoughts while you worked your way back up that rope.
"Even" the Royal Arches rappel route has had rescues (including in ANAM 2012)
For any rap, BOTH partners need the essential rap escape equipment (including food, water, wind jacket, helmet) with them at all times. For a rap of this difficulty, you didn't have nearly the essential gear (e.g. 2 sets of ascenders). Nor the skills and experience.
I think most climbers with a few dozen rappels under their belt have had at least one that didn't go smoothly and require self-extrication such as some prussiking or finding an anchor you've missed, or unexpectantly come to the end of the ropes, or gotten one stuck and had to re-ascend it.
In 23 raps down the Nose you could expect to have several hangups.
Especially since the likelihood of you making it all the way to the ground during daylight hours was nearly nil.
As many have said: Know Your Partner. As you've accepted, this is the more experienced partner's responsibility.
Bad night's sleep, stuck rope, missing a helmet. Bad way to start.
***When things start going badly, re-evaluate the situation BEFORE digging a deeper hole.
Time to ascend the bolt ladder back to the top, get more practice and come back another day.
Given the overall situation, Richard's incapacitation, your lack of experience and equipment, going down the ropes to help Richard might have been catastrophic for you both.
Yes, Richard was at significant risk dangling at the end of the ropes, especially if he was dehydrated with lower than normal blood volume.
Suspension trauma (Syn. "orthostatic shock while suspended")[1], also known as harness hang syndrome (HHS), or orthostatic incompetence is an effect which occurs when the human body is held upright without any movement for a period of time. If the person is strapped into a harness or tied to an upright object they will eventually suffer the Central Ischaemic Response (commonly known as fainting). If one faints but remains vertical, one risks death due to one's brain not receiving the oxygen it requires If you'd waited any longer to call YOSAR you might both be dead from the storm and the following night out on the ropes.
Finally: Once you got stuck, you didn't totally F#@# up and make it seriously worse! That in itself is an accomplishment.
and yeah, you know all this now.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Aug 27, 2012 - 05:30pm PT
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There I was, looking down at the end of my ropes thinking, I wish I would have put some knots at the end. I had a 100lb haulbag attached to my belay loop, there was only about 10' of rope left and no anchor in site. I was on double ropes and even if I had my jumars, which I packed in the bottom of the haulbag, I really didn't know how they were going to do me any good with the double ropes. I guess I could jumar the end without the knots and hopefully have them jam against the webbing. But, that sounded REALLY scary. If the knot jumped the sling then I could see me counter balancing the bags, pulling them up really fast and sawing through the webbing.
It was 1997 and I had just climbed my first bigwall, the NA, solo. Now I was on the East Ledges, feeling totally stranded. A lot of climbers told me I wasn't ready for such an undertaking but I went anyway, and feeling pretty good about my 9 day solo, until now.
I was so scared and felt so alone I felt tears welling up in my eyes. Come on pull it together, I thought. Every time I tried to relax, even a little, I slipped a half an inch at a time, down the ropes. Ok, first off I need to tie burly backup knots at the end of the ropes. This was difficult and a bit scary trying to hold my brake hand and tie this knot. I finally accomplished it and decided to just rap to the knot and let it jam against my rap device so I at least can use both hands.
It worked. Luckily, I had a couple of slings which I tried several different friction knots; The Bachmann, prusik, and klemhiest. The klemhiest seemed to work the best with the slings I had and had to wrap it with extra wraps to prevent it from sliding.
It took a while but I finally escaped from the bag and left it hanging from the end of the ropes as I slowly made my way up the double ropes. Most of my rigging gear was down in the haulbag but I managed to rig a system and start hauling my pig back to the edge. Luckily, a couple of friends came by and helped me haul the bag the rest of the way out.
I was in over my head the second I left the ground and most people would have said I had no business trying what I did. I took responsibility every step of the way, even though I screwed up several times. I learned more on that wall than any other wall I've ever done. I was scared shitless many times but kept it together enough to get myself out of the situations I got myself in.
Everyone makes mistakes, in life, relationships, climbing, etc. The key is to stay calm and figure out how to fix the mistake... and then learn from it.
I didn't recount this story for the OP's benefit, I'm sure they have learned plenty from their mistakes. But, to those who might be reading this and who are new enough in this game we play that it might make a difference someday, for them.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 27, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
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ECP I second that, about the East Ledges descent. It's just supposed to be an easy way off el Cap but it's sketchy. I remember my ropes not reaching the anchors and having to wrestle with the pig on a grassy ledge without being clipped in. What a nightmare. The next rope I get is going to be 65 meters or more. I've never had an epic because my rope was 10 feet too long.
We need to know what was in the 45 lb rapeller's pack. Must have been something useful in it. Nothing useful at all? No water? I dont think I would ever want to rappel el Cap with a 45 lb pack on my back. Between my legs, ok - then I can get into it or just leave it at the end of the ropes. I can just imagine, hanging in mid air under the great roof, with both hands locking off the rope, and a 45 lb backpack to throw off my balance and make me spin around. In ECP's situation I might have cut the pig loose, and hope no one is down there to get hit by it.
Geez I mean with 45 lbs, you could have brought a portaledge, sleeping bag, a hanging stove, a couple gallons of water and 10 lbs of Hudon's gnarly wall coffee and still had room for jumars.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 27, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
I am glad my tax dollars helped support this adventure and the great outcome of no one hurt or dead.
If we do not create a society that can on the fringe support adventure then I see not much reason for society.
If we choose to support adventure then we must pay the price. Mistakes will occur, assistance will be requested and we as a collection of souls, as decent humans must, will heed the call for help.
In the end I only know of one good rule in climbing. No one dies no one gets seriously hurt. Oh and One other rule that doesn't matter in this situation
I've always wanted to rap the nose, not with a burning desire but I always thought it would be fun. Except for hiking the sh#t needed up there lol.
Chris if you ever want to try it again and want a partner I'd be glad to go.
I actually hope you contact me for it. Same goes for your buddy.
/salute
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 27, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
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Holy frig, Ammon! I got sweaty hands just reading that! Where's my chalk bag? [Oh yeah, I don't own one]
Note to n00bs - you can do a double rope rappel using a locking carabiner and an alpine butterfly knot, which allows you to rappel on a single strand using your autolocking Grigri as a rappel device. When you let go of the lever, you are safely locked off. Later, you can pull down your rappel ropes from the other side.
READ THE PETZL CATALOGUE so you know how to do it. And don't end up dead like the guy on Serenity Crack - Sons of Yesterday who didn't read the catalogue, and thought he knew how to do it.
Besides having the facility to move up or down a fixed rope at all times on a big wall, everyone needs to have the brains and balls to keep their head together when the sh|t starts to hit the fan. Certainly Richard has some brains or he would be dead by now.
Big wall climbing, or rappelling, is a continuous problem solving experience. This is not Big Wall Theory, this is Big Wall Fact. If you are not smart, and a good problem solver even when you are scared, you have no business being up there.
{Pete brushes imaginary chalk off his hands}
Right then, anyone else have any questions about big wall climbing? ;) Your friends here at McTopo are eager to help.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Aug 27, 2012 - 06:44pm PT
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ECP I second that, about the East Ledges descent. It's just supposed to be an easy way off el Cap but it's sketchy.
I just went the wrong way, rapped straight down the middle between the common raps and the old-school descent. Saw some slings around a tree and went right over the edge onto the face, ha haa.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Aug 27, 2012 - 07:27pm PT
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I was so scared and felt so alone I felt tears welling up in my eyes. Come on pull it together, I thought. Every time I tried to relax, even a little, I slipped a half an inch at a time, down the ropes.
90% chance of nightmares tonight. I don't know of any such story, but I guess it's likely that some time, somewhere, someone took the ride in this same scenario. The slow and relentless slip toward the end of the rope. Gulp.
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