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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 30, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
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We are also the only first world country with the death penalty....american exceptionalism at its "best."
Well, I think Japan is a first world country, but you make a good point. For being the supposed leader of the free world, we do tend to hold dear a number of outdated principles and laws--misguidedly thinking that it is somehow these things that made us great in the first place.
Curt
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
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I didn't understand why they conservative right was so up in arms about the ACA...
...In any case, just because the Act was written by a democrat doesn't mean it's imprudent, unfair, or invalid.
Still, you managed to answer your own question. The only reason Republicans opposed the ACA is because Obama was for it. From the beginning of Obama's first term, Republicans have had the goal of denying Obama any political victories whatsoever--even if it means not acting in the best interests of the country. Pathetic, but that's it in a nutshell.
Curt
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juar
Sport climber
socal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
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"I don't think it's fair to judge how much anyone "loves" the country..."
your being to kind
anyone who brings this issue up is harking back to eras where it was accpetable to own people and descriminate against others
these folks are deluded by magical thinking about all the nice things about racism
nothing which should be coddled
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
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I am against ACA because it makes the American people ever more dependant on their government.
You mean like they are in Massachusetts?
Curt
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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Come on Fattass, waiting:
My friends company will be terminating their plan for nine people, he will increase their salaries by some amount, but less than the current health premium. Companies over 50 must provide a health plan.
well then your imaginary "friend" will pocket that saving as additional personal profit
cite the section and language of the ACA that changes or "costs" an employer with nine employees he currently provides health insurance for to his business detriment
I will wait, I know you have carefully read, as I have, the entire 2700 page bill, twice.
Chapter and verse please
should be easy, IF you know what you are talking about
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juar
Sport climber
socal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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"I am against ACA because it makes the American people ever more dependant on their government."
what crap
your already dependant on your government
your just against law enforcement reaching into criminal practices
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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How dumb are the republicans? Very!! They are now going to make repealing the healthcare act the number one issue and their chosen candidate is the father of it. Dumb fuks.
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juar
Sport climber
socal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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unfortunately
their attention span isnt long enough to grasp your salient words
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
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Fattard wrote: Bob,
The #1 reason for repealing ObamaCare is that it dissuades companies from hiring employees. I posted a link yesterday with quotes from several small businesses stating as much.
TheTool
Are you really that dumb...yes you are? Dumber than dirt.
The ACA represents the most significant social legislative overhaul in the U.S. since President Lyndon Johnson passed Medicare in 1965, and so there's no perfect case study to predict how the ACA will affect the economy. But on a smaller scale, Massachusetts, under Mitt Romney while he was governor of the Bay State, enacted a universal health care law in 2006 that became an inspiration for President Obama's law. **Nonpartisan experts have studied the Massachusetts law and find no negative jobs impact; but critics, including some business owners, predict a grim future, especially for small businesses and their employees.
**
What Romney's Health Care Reform Law Shows
A new study put out by the Urban Institute with funding provided by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation suggests that the federal health care reform law won't cause job loss. The nonpartisan Washington D.C.-based research institute analyzed Romney's own health care reform law (which, ironically, he championed as governor of Massachusetts), and how it impacted the jobs market, and then compared that to other states that didn't implement health care reform from 2006 to 2010. (The Romney campaign didn't respond to AOL Jobs' requests for an interview.)
The study's authors, Lisa Dubay, Sharon K. Long and Emily Lawton, determined that the Massachusetts law and the federal law were similar enough to merit a comparison, thanks largely to the common mandate that most individuals be covered either through their employer or by other means. And the authors do concede: "Economic theory suggests that when employers are required to offer health insurance coverage ... employers will reduce wages and ... employers may respond by demanding less labor."
But that wasn't what happened in Massachusetts, they concluded. "Massachusetts has achieved its goal of near universal health insurance coverage under its 2006 health reform initiative," the authors note, "with no indication of negative job consequences relative to other states as a result of health reform."
Conclusion: "The evidence from Massachusetts would suggest that national health reform does not imply job loss and stymied economic growth."
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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Norton,
His costs would not go up. But, he can say money(his money) by not providing a health plan and giving the employees a small raise, they will get coverage if they want it.
"I am a native of Santa Fe, and I would like to meet your drug dealer. Because, Norton, if you said the bullshit I quoted above, then you are smoking some really good sh#t."
TheTool
Of course he can give himself additional personal profit by cleverly screwing his own employees of out company provided healthcare, that is his "right" as a capitalist
And the "small raise" he will give them will be far less to his employee's advantage than by providing them with healthcare, again that is his right to make as much money for himself as possible, even if it is at the expense of the people that work for him.
Your "friend" appears to be as much of a horse's ass as you are, Jeff.
Oh, and Jeff?
I stand by my 18 years experience here in New Mexico, surrounded by Hispanics.
Why don't you shut you god damn mouth?
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juar
Sport climber
socal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
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the f*#king ownership class
aint been a more aforded group of welfare recipents
who cant admit who their sleeping with
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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Fattrad,
I am really interested in why you think the ACA makes people more dependent on their government. Can you walk me through your logic? (Again, not being cheeky, I just really don't know what you're thinking.)
Also, do you think the main effect of the ACA will be to encourage businesses with around fifty employees to let some go and put some on part-time, just so they can not provide healthcare? Why wouldn't they just have done that in the first place? Does the ACA really increase the number of employees required for an employer to provide healthcare from what the minimum was before--or does it create one? I was pretty sure there was one before. I'm not clear about this law and what it was before so cannot really assess its effects. I guess I don't see how the ACA would change the majority of companies' behavior if those companies hadn't changed their behavior before (since I don't see a link). I will research the minimums required for healthcare.
EDIT: How the Healthcare Law Affects Your Business/
I think that it's a valid concern that companies might dump health insurance because it's cheaper to pay the fine. They will, though, still have to compete with companies who do provide benefits when they are hiring (this market-type approach to the problem really only works in an employee market). Eh. I'm not sure that companies will be discouraged from hiring if they are in the position to do so, however. There is nothing in the Act that requires companies over 50 employees to provide insurance, there is just a fee if one full-time employee has to take the subsidy.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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Jeff wrote: Every business was doing great when RomneyCare was passed in Mass., small businesses are now hurting, they will stop hiring and some will cut their health plans, economic reality. Can't find my post of yesterday, but it qutoed several business owners.
You are a paranoid, scare little man...that all you are and that is all you got.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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Norton,
Bwahahahahaahaha.
TheTool
typical
and childish
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
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A new study put out by the Urban Institute with funding provided by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation suggests that the federal health care reform law won't cause job loss. The nonpartisan Washington D.C.-based research institute analyzed Romney's own health care reform law (which, ironically, he championed as governor of Massachusetts), and how it impacted the jobs market, and then compared that to other states that didn't implement health care reform from 2006 to 2010. (The Romney campaign didn't respond to AOL Jobs' requests for an interview.)
It's no wonder that Romney and his campaign are ducking this issue. I am very much looking forward to the face to face Obama - Romney debates where Romney will have to articulate why his own idea is a bad one. He will then further need to address the following, with regard to repealing the ACA:
CBO: Repeal of ACA Will Explode Future Deficits
Here's an interesting piece of news out of the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO): the Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA) will increase federal budget deficits "something in the vicinity of $230 billion" over the next ten years. What was that pledge the GOP made to the American people before the midterms? It included something about bringing down deficits, didn't it?
This should be good!!
Curt
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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yosguns, you are asking fattrad for a thoughtful, rational explanation for his views.
You can write this off coming from a ST Lib, but you will soon discover that this is beyond his ability.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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bingo
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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It is not beyond his ability. I think he's just holding out on us.
EDIT: Man, I was supposed to stay away and got lured back in!!!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
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Good luck with that, yosguns.
I've been hangin' with him in these threads for tens of thousands of posts, and it ain't happened yet.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jun 30, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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The republicans are going to fight the ACA law with tax payer dollars so that the health care industry can keep a tighter grip on profits...The conservatives are against socialism unless it benefits their pocketbooks...what a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites...
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