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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 22, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
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Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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May 22, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
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I'm just reading this for the first time but from the OP I gather that this girl's bike frame broke while she was riding on the sidewalk at 5mph, she hit her head on the pavement and had some kind of head trauma. Did she die from the injury? The first article doesnt mention it. To me this seems incredibly trivial, I would never take a case like this. Its not trivial that someone (may have) died, but the case seems to be. Someone is suing the Yosemite concession owner that manages Curry Village because she got Hanta Virus. That's a b.s. case too.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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May 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
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I have no problem boycotting REI
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 22, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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^^^
Tell a friend...
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10b4me
Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
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May 22, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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^^^what he said
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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May 22, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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Slightly amazed by Dane's latest pic there. Aluminum frame broke before the carbonfiber fork. I'm surprised to see failure of the frame tubing itself. Probably undersized the tubing relative to the wall thickness or got a bad batch of tubing.
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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May 22, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
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All I know is... The REI store I worked at many years ago didn't know it's head from the rear. I had three store managers in less than six months. I pissed one of them off for keeping the store open and extra 15 minutes to sell over a 2,000 dollars worth of gear. (I was told next time I was to make them leave.) Plus I was told I wasn't dedicated enough since my priorities was my college classes, "not them." :) They were right on that!
All I can say is as an ex-worker, I wasn't treated well. Now Real Cheap Sports, now that is a great store. I was treated very well and I will never forget that. Tim is a great guy and he won't carry anything in the store without fully backing it up. Plus, he has a really nice climbing gear collection.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 22, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.
scaredtodeath, like I said you are confused. If you are going to succeed as a lawyer you will need to sharpen your reading and analytic skills.
I was giving examples how absurd their defenses are. I never said these were winning arguments. REI has a history of making stupid losing arguments. That's the whole point.
Also, I don't know what kind of grade you got in first year torts, but a parent company can avoid being liable for negligence of its subsidiaries. It depends on the circumstances and the jurisdictions.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 22, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
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If you're an attorney you're an extremely bad example I suspect.
If you are a human being you are a piss poor example of one.
Agreed, there's something wrong with anyone who thinks that permanent brain damage is "incredibly trivial."
The real issue was if it was REI's fault. They lost on that issue.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 22, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
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Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.
I think the above is probably right in its conclusion with respect to the hypothetical BD example, but not for the reasons written above, and it may not be generally correct.
There would be federal diversity jurisdiction against an Asian manufacturer, but that just means you can proceed in federal, rather than state, court. You still need to establish personal jurisdiction over a defendant (the Asian manufacturer).
Whether you can get personal jurisdiction in the US over an Asian entity that does no business in the US isn't an obvious question (at least not to me), and in any event the answer isn't determined by diversity.
I don't think REI would get any traction in the hypothetical BD example because the entities are commonly controlled, but that's just semi-informed speculation on my part.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
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May 22, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
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All I know is... The REI store I worked at many years ago didn't know it's head from the rear.
All I can say is as an ex-worker, I wasn't treated well.
ditto
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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May 22, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
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"The real issue was if it was REI's fault."
Actually, thats not the issue, but carry-on. Hi GC!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 22, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
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I've litigated against foreign entities and individuals in federal and state court.
If they make stuff that purposefully ends up in the U.S. a court will exercise jurisdiction. Obviously there are matters of degree, but that is not a supertopo discussion.
Service is done per the Hague convention.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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May 22, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
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I've litigated against foreign entities and individuals in federal court.
If they make stuff that purposefully ends up in the U.S. a district court will exercise jurisdiction. Obviously there are matters of degree, but that is not a supertopo discussion.
Service is done per the Hague convention.
Service, like federal diversity, is a different issue from personal jurisdiction. (And service can only be done via Hague convention if the defendant's country is a treaty member.)
You seem to think the "stream of commerce" theory is sufficient for personal jurisdiction. Some courts may agree, but that's far from settled law.
Relatively recent Supreme Court cases have significantly curtailed the "stream of commerce" theory--perhaps your case(es) preceded those cases.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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May 22, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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It depends on the stream... I need to get back to work.
edit: I should have said personal jurisdiction instead of diversity upthread. You get what you pay for herein!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 22, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
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I don't think REI would get any traction in the hypothetical BD example because the entities are commonly controlled,
Control would be an important factor in building a case for liability under an agent, common enterprise, or alter ego theory, but it wouldn't in and of itself be dispositive.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 22, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
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Diversity jurisdiction isn't so simple in chain-of-commerce cases, because there's usually a defendant with the same citizenship as a plaintiff, thereby destroying diversity.
Frankly, in this division of the Eastern District of California, you're better off in state court as a plaintiff. The federal juries tend to be much more tight in awarding money.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with the OP.
John
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