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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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Nope, Snopes says this is only partially true. Trump does donate his salery and Melania has others helping her.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
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Anyone else noted that the markets have been creeping upwards nicely these past few days?
Look, Trump is either an idiot or more-or-less pretends to be one for who knows what purpose, but none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
What a morally hollow thing to say.
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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ha, pretty funny couchmaster
Trump was worth according to him, 10 billion dollars, he hardly needs the Pres salary
was every other President is US history a "taker" for receiving their salary?
isn't it odd that Trump supporters consider the Obama Presidency the Gold Standard
because they always, always pick that Presidency to compare Trump's too?
the stock market, give me a break
the stock market was up 233% during President Obamas' terms, the most of any President in US History, again - the gold standard, give me a break
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 01:55pm PT
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Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's military parade in DC is likely to cost nearly as much as the now canceled military exercise with South Korea that Trump called "tremendously expensive" and said cost "a fortune," three US defense officials tell CNN.
The parade, which is now scheduled to take place on November 10, is currently estimated to cost approximately $12 million, the officials said.
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nafod
Boulder climber
State college
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Jul 18, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
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Trump is making it up in emoluments
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 18, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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Norton, sorry to say it looks like you've been the victim of fake news re: Obama stock market returns.
It was good under Obama, but no where near as good as you wrote, and nowhere near the record (which seems to be Slick Willie, at least in modern times, I don't know about farther back). And Obama had the good luck to start at a historic downturn, so when you look at that way, his returns weren't so great.
And focusing on the markets / economy is not "morally hollow"--it's focusing on what really matters in people's lives, not silly political talking points like whether Trump is kissing Putin's ass or whatnot. That stuff may be good fun, but remember who said "It's the economy, stupid"--it was the Clintonites as I recall.
Here are the numbers I see, from http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/jan/08/how-trump-obama-compare-stock-market/
President
Length of term
Closing Dow Jones Industrial Average
Percentage increase in the Dow Jones Industrial Average
Barack Obama
8 years
19,827
+ 149 percent
George W. Bush
8 years
7,949
 25 percent
Bill Clinton
8 years
10,578
+ 227 percent
George H.W. Bush
4 years
3,242
+ 45 percent
Ronald Reagan
8 years
2,235
+ 135 percent
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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The ACA was the biggest fraud in modern history.
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor
The ACA was certainly not without its flaws. I generally avoid posting on these sorts of threads, but I am compelled for personal reasons to jump in here for a second.
I know people who did not qualify for the ACA subsidies whose insurance rates went up considerably after the ACA passed. I don't know anyone personally who was unable to keep their doctor as a result of the ACA, although I know there are plenty of examples. Many of the people I knew who had rates go up, had that happen because their old plan was catastrophic coverage which was essentially junk coverage, and now, while they do have to pay more, they have insurance that is much more adequate.
I also know a lot of people who couldn't afford insurance, and/or were ineligible for it entirely, prior to the ACA, due to incredibly high rates and also pre-existing condition exclusions. I'm one of the former, and in a pre-ACA world, I would today be one of the latter. From 2003 to 2013 I could not afford any insurance plans in the state of Alaska, or at least, the plans were not only extremely pricey, but also included impossibly high deductibles. For example. In 2010, the cheapest plan I could find on the individual market (I don't get benefits from my job) was $1,300 a month for a plan with a $10,000 deductible and a $14,000 out of pocket limit. Inside the plan there were multiple exclusions, including most sports injuries! So if I had a serious illness or incident, premiums plus deductible would have me spending almost $26,000 before I'd see any benefit- and that's if they even approved coverage! That's almost 70% of my income. I decided to take my chances without insurance, save money the best I could, and have a bunch of high limit credit cards on hand. That's not insurance.
The ACA came along in 2013 and I just barely qualified (almost made too much money) for the premium tax credit. As such, my wife and I pay $150/month for a plan with a $5,250 individual deductible and a $6,500 individual out of pocket limit. Not exactly great, but far better than before. Without the tax credit, my plan is $1,000 a month per person! Which is ridiculous and for people who make just more than me, unaffordable. It's clear that the ACA helps some and hurts others, and it does so because it did nothing to bring down costs of healthcare itself.
Three years later I was diagnosed with cancer and since 2016 I've accrued almost $600,000 in medical bills for two major surgeries and radiation therapy. Through a lot of timing and especially luck I didn't miss any work. But I'm not bankrupt or even close, because I can afford the $6,500 a year, even though it is less than convenient.
Further, on the subject of "keeping your doctor"- I not only can GET a doctor now, but under my "Bronze" plan I have been able to choose exactly who I wanted and needed in order to deal with my extremely rare cancer, I've been treated not only in Alaska, but at specialty clinics at University of Washington, University of Utah, and University of Michigan.
I truly sympathize with people who have been harmed by the ACA, and I'd like to see the ACA reformed to something that benefits everyone, and at this point, I have an incentive to not make much more money than I do, lest I lose the tax credit and increase my premium tenfold. But I am weary of hearing the narrative about the ACA spun as though everyone lost their doctors and nobody benefited from it. It's simply not true. My story is anecdotal to be sure, but all I can say is that if my cancer had shown up a few years earlier, or if the ACA hadn't been enacted, I'd surely be bankrupt today, and possibly not alive. I currently need CT scans every 3 months for many years ahead. Each one is $5000. I'm expecting to retain my insurance in 2019, but beyond that, I am not hopeful at this point, as President Trump's administration is working hard to bring back pre-existing condition exclusions and encourage insurers to leave the ACA marketplace. My future is even more uncertain, in many ways now.
On another note, the above story seems to really anger Trump supporters and opponents of the ACA. Awhile back I was discussing the ACA with someone who told me "I hope your cancer comes back and kills you soon so you can stop leeching off my tax dollars". They went on to explain that if wasn't so irresponsible, I would have half a million dollars saved up to pay for emergency medical expenses rather than relying on insurance. This guy? He had cadillac insurance through his wife's corporate job. I'm the devil, however, for using the ACA.
With that level of discourse in the country, where do you go now?
I still marvel that a law foisted on us by a Kenyan not legally qualified to be president is not regarded as something 1000× worse than any alleged crime of DJT.
And sorry, but this ^ is just patently offensive to me.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
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Of course it’s morally hollow, blah.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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And Obama had the good luck to start at a historic downturn, so when you look at that way, his returns weren't so great.
Translation - Obama inherited an economy destroyed by a Republican and turned it around. Trump had the good luck to start at a historic rise in the markets.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
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Damn Mark... sorry about the cancer...that just sucks.
The basic problem isn't how to pay for 600k in treatments which is patently absurd. The problem is the illusion of free money that creates a 600k bill from 30k of work. The Aca just props up a system that needs to be torn down to the foundation and built again. Insurance mathematically should be there for truly catastrophic events, like most all other insurance types. Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people.
I'm glad you were able to at least benefit from it no matter how misguided it was.
Oh, and f#&k cancer!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
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Assuming the future follows past patterns, therefore, stock-market bulls shouldn’t be basing their bullishness on current economic activity. This advice becomes even more compelling when we realize that we typically don’t know how the economy is performing in real time, but rather only well after the fact.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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none of it matters one rat's ass as long as the markets keep going up, it's as simple as that.
That is an absurd statement, but not at all surprising, considering that the ostensible leader of our nation says things like that all the time. And, some members of the GOP apparently agree with him.
Some Trump supporters want to end all regulations, such as those that prohibit dumping toxic waste into public waterways. A company, like Georgia Pacific, would increase its profits if it could just dump its waste into rivers, which would cause its stock price to rise. The people seeking deregulation believe that the only thing that matters is the stock market.
If money is the only thing that matters, why has the United States not invaded South Africa, and seized the diamond and gold mines there? Why has the United States not invaded Canada and Mexico, and enslaved the people there to produce goods to be sold to Americans?
Why hasn't the United States seized Iraq's oil fields as "reimbursement" (Trump's terminology)?
I am going to go in there, and I am going to take the oil.
Donald Trump campaign statement
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis
The state of the stock market is not the only thing that matters in America, and it is not even a substantially important matter for most people. For the majority of Americans, stock market prices have no effect on their lives, whatsoever. A rising stock market is primarily the focus of a small percentage of Americans, such as the 1% wealthiest.
Increasing profits and driving up the price of stocks, such as Apple, has been the primary motive for moving manufacturing operations overseas. No company is moving their factories to China because it's easier to do business there. It's a pain in the ass to have things made in China. Companies do it because it causes the price of their stock to go up.
For a corporation, the only thing that matters is the price of their stock. A corporation behaves identically to a psychopathic person, hitting every single characteristic that psychologists use to define psychopathy.
MEGA = Make Excess Great Again
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jul 18, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
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Translation - Obama inherited an economy destroyed by a Republican and turned it around. Trump had the good luck to start at a historic rise in the markets.
correct, because the Republican mantra is that markets should be free, free like puppies
and so the Republican Bush Administration ignored the rise in sub prime mortgage lending and did nothing at all to tighten underwriting
and so the Republican Bush Administration did nothing to regulate the toxic growth of CDO's and Derivatives
both of the above directly leading to the worst Recession since the Great Depression
tens of millions of Americans lost their jobs and millions lost their homes
and the stock market to collapse from over 14,000 to 7000 destroying trillions of dollars in Americans life savings
yeah, vote Republican, they sure know how to handle the economy...LOL
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2018 - 04:48pm PT
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The White House Press Office is denying statements Trump has been recorded and filmed making. This policy follows Trump in denying his own statements.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/us/politics/trump-putin-higher-intelligence.html
The next step for Trump is to order the Army Corps of Engineers to construct a National Memory Hole for the wholesale destruction of documents, evidence, facts, and reality.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
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When the crash comes and it will ,it will definitely be Obama’s fault.
Maybe even Bernie’s.
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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The basic problem isn't how to pay for 600k in treatments which is patently absurd. The problem is the illusion of free money that creates a 600k bill from 30k of work. The Aca just props up a system that needs to be torn down to the foundation and built again. Insurance mathematically should be there for truly catastrophic events, like most all other insurance types. Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people
Thanks, Fear.
^^I agree, although we are so far from this ever happening I'm not holding my breath!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 18, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
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Basic and common procedures should be affordable to working productive people
As they are in every other first-world country.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
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Total witch hunt?
Something to naturally cool and sooth the "so-called" moron.
Thank you very much everybody.
The president is working very hard to make sure that the Russians do not meddle (medal?) in any more elections, except in Kenya or Monte_Nigra,
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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You believe every f*#king word that comes out of this Ass Clown's mouth like f*#king sheep.
"In response to Russia, the eighties called and they want their foreign policy back."
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 18, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
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When the crash comes and it will ,it will definitely be Obama’s fault.
No, it will NOT be Obama's fault, nor Putin's, nor Trumps, nor any Govt entity.
It will solely be your fault because you Americans are just plain st00pid ignorant idiots .....
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