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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
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I gave you factual numbers
LOL! There are numbers in those articles, that much is true.
Your tacit argument seems to be that undocumented workers are more dangerous than americans. I am asking you to prove that by showing data that illegal immigrants commit more violent crimes per capita than US citizens. You can whine about it all night long, but the simple FACT is that you have not done that.
Quit being such a little bitch and prove you are right. Data. Bring it on. If you cannot do that, then be a man and admit that you are wrong.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
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and as such wanted to sell the lands to a foreign oil exploration company and much of that land converted to domiciles for said exploration efforts.
Unless you can show me something definitive saying otherwise, I'll call this one a total lie.
Made up fairy dust.
The BLM and many other federal lands are normally open to anyone who wants to drill on them. YOU can go get an oil and gas lease (which is totally independent from surface ownership).
A Taco-head had me look up some land in Colorado that was in an upcoming BLM oil and gas lease sale. We have them all of the time. It is simple, if you meet the bonding requirements, which aren't much in the scheme of things.
This is how it works:
1) Your geologist tells you to drill you where to drill.
2) You send the landman to the county courthouse, where you can work the title and find out the owner of the mineral rights, which in many areas are severed from the surface ownership. You lease the mineral owner. You don't even give the surface owner a phone call. You contact them if you decide to put your surface location on their land. They can rarely stop you.
3) After a while, the minerals will come up for auction. You can go to any oil and gas lease auction and bid, whoever you are. Let's say you win and now own the oil and gas lease.
4) Before drilling the well, you settle surface damages with the surface owner. It is very rare that a surface owner can prevent you from drilling if you now own the mineral rights. It varies by state, but the surface owner is compensated. It is usually between 5 and 100 grand, depending on the surface. If you can't come to an agreement, you go to arbitration. You can even get an injunction in ten minutes if the judge is awake and the surface owner is pointing a shotgun at the rig hands.
5) You drill the well. The mineral owner gets a nice percentage of the proceeds if you make a well. Even if you drill a dry hole, the mineral owner, private or government, makes money off of the leases. We call this price the "bonus," and it can be 50 bucks per acre or 50K per acre.
The west is COVERED with federal leases. The federal government makes money off of the production, the state makes money from production taxes (which are a lot).
You can't get sneaky. I've done BLM leasing and it isn't that hard. Anyone here could learn to do it over two beers with me.
You can't play any games with state or federal oil and gas leases. Ron, you can go lease up a ton of ground yourself if you feel like wasting a ton of money.
In an area such as Nevada, or most of the western states where the state and fed owns the majority of the land, there are sometimes vast oil and gas fields, and companies have been producing from that land for ages.
Now, in 2014, companies know which land might possibly have oil or gas. You need a thick sedimentary section, a source rock (almost always a carbon rich shale), and a seal. The source rock must have been buried to a sufficient depth to break down the carbon and generate oil or gas. The sedimentary basins are all known.
Nevada's Basin and Range province does have linear sedimentary basins, but despite a fair amount of looking, there isn't that much production.
Now if it looks hot, and right now geologists are scouring the planet looking for shales to frack, then you will normally have multiple companies competing for those leases. Nevada isn't that hot, so the recent leases went super cheap.
Get this through your skull: Mineral rights are independent of the surface in almost all situations. I've bought a 7 acre lot in the middle of a city and drilled right under the damn Wal Mart. There weren't any problems.
So you should really try to find a better conspiracy theory, Ron. There may be future activity in some of the Nevada mini-basins, but not yet, and I can practically promise you that every decent sized company looks at Nevada. You put a small team on it for a few months to a year. You don't put a whole division on it yet.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
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NCRockClimber writes:
"Your tacit argument seems to be that undocumented workers are more dangerous than americans."
What is the percentage of prisoners who are illegal aliens? I don't know. Look it up, and if it's more or less than two or three percent, you'll find your answer.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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Senator Reid wants to take all of that land to build a landing pad for aliens. Off world aliens. Not the human type.
I read it on the internet. It must be true.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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"You'll certainly find out who can't afford lawyers. "
Please elaborate. I'm not sure I follow. I don't see how lack of income makes a difference, seeing how everyone is provided legal counsel, regardless of demographic.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
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Wow, this place has turned into Super Racist. . .
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
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the Reese River valley has just been put under a sale agreement with fracking companys by the BLM.
I am working with you here, because apparently you can't do it for yourself, you idiot.
There is no real meaning in "sale agreement." You need to say if they are leasing or nominating it for lease, or whatever.
If the land that you want to drill under is owned by the BLM (or any federal agency), you must first nominate that land for auction. Then somebody has to show up and bid on the auction. Federal leases are totally transparent. Of course some areas are off limits, such as military bases and the like. If it is rural, it is normally open.
So somebody is nominating it to put in a lease sale? That is all open for all to see. No secrets. Or has their been an auction and the land has already been leased? The latter would compose an "agreement."
If it is privately owned land, it is much different. You approach the mineral owner quietly and try to lease his minerals. The dollar per acre amount and the royalty amount is negotiable. Much more negotiable if you have more than one company wanting that lease.
Leasing a private person can be done quietly, but you must file it in the county court house where the land lies. The laws on this vary by state, but normally you file your leases right away. It prevents somebody else from leasing farmer Jones again and beating you to the court house, which is important in most states.
Anyone can go into a county courthouse and see the leases filed on that land.
I am heading out tomorrow to check an area that I am trying to put together as a prospect. I am just doing a quick cursory check to see if the land is currently leased by another company. If they are, I will look at the expiration date. Land around here gets leased over and over throughout the years, often with no well getting drilled, and if they don't drill during the primary term of the lease, they will expire and I will swoop in an nab it.
When you file something in the courthouse, it provides legal "notice" to everyone else, an important legal concept that home owners have to do.
I used to do a lot of land work, and through that have a pretty good understanding of real property law.
AGAIN: AN OIL AND GAS LEASE IS INDEPENDENT OF ANY SURFACE RIGHTS unless they are mentioned in the lease.
My guess is that most private mineral rights in Nevada have not been "severed." That means that the surface owner also owns the mineral rights. In oil and gas country, it is common, if not the norm, for the mineral owner to be separate from the surface.
Either a farmer sold off all or part of his mineral rights to raise some money, or when a farmer sold the farm, he reserved the mineral rights from the grant (deed)....therefore severing the surface from the mineral estate. This is the norm in a lot of the areas that I work. The minerals get handed down and sold around until you can have 100 different people or entities owning the mineral rights under a 40 acre tract.
A lease is different from a deed. You can't actually BUY the land form the state or federal government. Oil and gas companies almost NEVER buy the mineral rights. It is much cheaper just to lease them.
If you want a lesson on how oil and gas leases typically work, and the clauses they normally contain, that is another lesson.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
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Im wrong because YOU say so?? BUWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA... With zero facts to back your story??? wuwhhahahahahahahahahahaaaa...How ironic. And FYI I NEVER SAID what you attempt to credit me with jr. Not even close. Now go read up on reading comprehension then get back to me.
The way you looney lefters spin shyt --ya ought to be an arachnoid- the web would be industrial strength.
It has never been my attempt to misrepresent your views. Since you seem to think my reading comprehension is lacking, can you briefly and clearly state whatever you are trying to say?
Also, I don't have a "story" I am trying to "back." FWIW, I think immigration, especially from our latin american neighbors, is an incredibly complex issue and I have yet to read a comprehensive solution with which I agree.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
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and I have yet to read a comprehensive solution with which I agree.
How about: hire an illegal alien, go to jail. As soon as the evening news shows a Newport Beach housewife and the CEO of Iowa Beef Processors being marched off to prison, illegal immigration will come to a screeching halt.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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THE POINT WAS,,,,,, fracking exploration is happening all over my state now, including properties adjacent to dirty harry reid-land.
Really? ALL over your state? Drilling rigs lining the horizon?
Has anyone actually drilled a horizontal yet? I checked that a year or so ago and couldn't find any.
Meanwhile, thousands have been drilled in the rest of the country. No problems. The dis-information about it is what really bugs me.
And yes. English Common Law is the foundation of American Real Property Law with the notable exception of Louisiana. It is very fair.
As for the case when mineral rights are owned and leased by parties who have zero ownership in the surface is very legal. In OK, the mineral estate is considered SUPERIOR to the surface estate, all other factors being legal.
When you buy a place, you do a title opinion. You will note that you own only the surface, if that is the case. When something is filed in the courthouse, it is legal notice. Right there for all to see.
So in Ron's case, somebody should check the courthouse. It is all there plain as day.
It isn't just the BLM who "owns" federal land. There are national forests, parks, and others. Normally the BLM handles the mineral estate. So they normally handle the auctions other than the offshore stuff, which is handled my the Minerals Management Service of the Dept of Interior.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:00pm PT
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Crap. This took me ten seconds to find:
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/prog/minerals/leasable_minerals/oil___gas/oil_and_gas_leasing/2014_eoi.html
Geologists and the oil industry deal with the Section-Township-Range land survey formt (designed by Thomas Jefferson)."
I don't have access to Nevada well info anymore. I can download every well ever drilled in the mid-continent area, though.
There are public lease sales all of the time around here. We don't think that there is a UFO or secret New World Order when we see a sale.
Ron is a total nut. Harry Reid will not get a penny of royalty money from federal land, no more than Exxon does.
The only thing that politicians do is open or close off certain areas for leasing. That is done by executive policy or act of congress. That would just open it for drilling, as almost all of Nevada already is. The reason that Nevada isn't covered with oil and gas wells has to do with geology. It has nothing to do with ownership.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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The point is: there was no proper environmental assessment, which is a requirement for such leases to be valid.
Tioga? The Naval Petroleum Reserves...WHAT leases? You don't know what you are talking about, either...
Dude, I do this all day long. I'm mapping right now....
Here is what a heavily drilled area in Oklahoma looks like. The numbered squares are "sections" of one square mile...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
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Clearly state your question, Tioga, or clearly state your point. You can get a little help on these things called Google and Wikipedia, you know. I have no idea what you are talking about.
The United States is different from most other countries. Individuals can OWN mineral rights beneath their land. Parts of Canada allow this, but not all. These are called Crown Lands in Canada. So if somebody finds oil beneath your land in the U.S., you can get rich really quickly. It still happens all of the time.
The government retains ownership of lots of land and ocean waters. They are the biggest mineral owner in the country.
As for leases, I own interests in hundreds of them. Have you ever read one?
You can read about the Naval Reserves, a product of the early 20th century, here:
http://energy.gov/fe/services/petroleum-reserves/naval-petroleum-reserves
Look. Ron posts about Harry Reid somehow getting his hands on some government owned oil and gas rights. That did actually happen once, at Teapot Dome, in Wyoming, in 1923. Here is a quote from Wikipedia, on the scandal it caused:
Before the Watergate scandal, Teapot Dome was regarded as the "greatest and most sensational scandal in the history of American politics".[1] The scandal damaged the public reputation of the Harding administration, which was already severely diminished by its poor handling of the Great Railroad Strike of 1922 and the President's veto of the Bonus Bill in 1922.[2]
All that I am saying is that you can't drill a well without a lease, and federal leasing is done by open auction. The records of every change of land or mineral ownership is filed in the county where the land lies, even in Nevada. You can't hide it, and trust me. A politician can only try to open or close certain areas for drilling. That is done through congress, and normally makes the news. However, you can always visit the courthouse.
If you had been able to make money and buy a house, where you get a signed deed from the seller, you would know this. Minerals are treated like most land ownership (using basic English Common Law).
Greenies (and me) oppose drilling in ANWR. Republicans in Florida have been able to keep a drilling ban offshore of that state.
That is all a politician can do. They get rich off of lectures, not oil wells.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Oct 30, 2014 - 09:00am PT
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Here's the biggest thing wrong with Supertopo: Ron. And his sidekick, Weiner, isn't far behind. These two buffoons dumb down every conversation they enter.
Too funny....
But I still say...
Please elaborate.
I want a story for the campfire... hahaha
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 22, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
May 2, 2014 - 10:01am PT
Yah we all know you DEMS ignored all the LIES being spoon fed to you about Benghazi and now that the proof is 100% saying just that you still dont care because it involves your president and your next (hopeful)in line. Good to know you stand behind such LOUD LIARS... Pathetic you are each and every one of ya.
But do yammer on about such things as basket ball team owners that have ZERO to do with you or anyone else , about their personal habits. Thats somehow a major news story .. Sheeeeeit, can make this crap up.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Nov 22, 2014 - 11:17am PT
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The internet has all of this information. It seems limitless to anyone who remembers the days of writing letters with a pen.
So how come people aren't better informed?
It is because anyone can post anything on the internet. This great repository of information is 99% wrong.
I do use Wikipedia a lot, even with some technical questions. Wiki is cool. If you want to understand fracking, you really need to understand Young's Modulus. There is a great page which explains Young's Modulus in both plain English and in mathematics.
Other than that, you have to really be careful of what to believe. Take fracking. I know quite a bit about this, and it doesn't bother me a bit, which might surprise people who know that I am a pretty green guy.
I can go onto any green website and they all make fracking out to be something new and extremely dangerous. It is almost impossible to find out the basics, because it is all hyped.
This experience, as well as a few others, make me very cautious of most journalism. If it is a complicated or technical issue, the internet is full of conflicting information.
Just look at the Climate Change thread. There are about 10 guys who do nothing but waste their entire days posting different charts. You have to be very careful if an issue is complicated.
It is almost impossible to find out the basic facts about fracking, much less any technical information. I've never seen an article mention Young's modulus, for example.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 22, 2014 - 11:22am PT
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Yah we all know you DEMS ignored all the LIES being spoon fed to you about Benghazi and now that the proof is 100% saying just that
Looks like your the one eating some spoon fed BS if you think that there is any proof in that quote.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2014 - 11:47am PT
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I am sure that Benghazi investigation #8 will provide loads of damning evidence that the mainstream media has been hiding, and Ron will be dancing to the tune of "Told ya so, neener neener neener".
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Nov 22, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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I'm still waiting for Lance Armstrong to arm up and go postal on LeMond (pretends not to be American (French imposter, Vichy?) and sidmo (the not so great pretender - laughing and gay like a clown).
Bang bang
The only good Lance caught footballs for all he was worth!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
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Showing your age there z, but yeah, that Lance was both good and bad, as in bad azz. BITD when concussion protocol was for pussys, and the average player had a regular job in the off season.
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