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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 17, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
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Daily Readings from the Life of Christ (vol.1) By John MacArthur
I'm to Grace Church tonight for the Christmas concert with full orchestra
and choir! With Bach, Beethoven, and Handel, Cheers!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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No Bach or Beethoven but a double dose of Handel, and the singing was amazing!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:33am PT
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hey there all, say, just stepped in to see how you all are... :)
say--i just made a small song-list to help a gal out this week (for her holiday, as she is far away from home and friends), and there were so many nice little holiday songs from some others gals, too, that know her...
this one caught me eye, 'it came upon the midnight clear'... (that glorious song of odl)...
it seemed like a history trail, come alive of the whole christmas story event--though, many folks DON'T sing them all...
quite a few other gals that shared songs to send this OTHER gal, also liked it---just thought i'd share, as gobe? (think that is how it's spelled, hope i didn't mess up the spelling) had shared some songs, just a minute ago... (say, as an extra note, i loved beethoven's "joy" song quite a lot)... :)
well, as to the "midnight clear" i always like that christmas song---and---when we were little and our mom played the piano and sang the many christmas songs to us... that one also, made the night-even seem so real, to, for me, as a kid... (cold crisp weather, etc, and dark out, and the vast heavens)... and god... :)
*say, i will have to backtrack, and can't do that now, but happy wishes to the one whose mom is well now!! that sounds very wonderul...
well, god bless and good night, all...
this is very busy time now, i am making a project for a gal and it takes a lot of sewing... :)
will come back later and visit... this is very long to catch up on... :O
all for now... :)
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 08:46am PT
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Proverbs 18:14, A man's spirit will endure sickness,
but a crushed spirit who can bear?
Matthew 9:12-13, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Dec 18, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
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The problem of someone or anyone mixing science and religion is that the practice of one will always expose problems with the other. They cannot mix. Any scientist that goes to church and then experiments with, and investigates, evolutionary processes is going to have a hard time with things. It is hypocritical to be both a scientist and not an atheist because a true scientist would have absolutely no stake in the outcome of an experiment. So maybe it's fortunate that most scientists are hypocrites or no science would get done if the outcome could contradict the persons belief system. Either that or there are a lot more atheists than thought and a lot of people who won't admit it or acknowledge it.
It works both ways. Any priest, nun, rabbi, pope, etc..., that makes any statement about science or does any science it equally a hypocrite because of their either accepting what contradicts their beliefs or in their bias towards their beliefs.
Wasn't this a science thread to start with and now is just about religion? I recall mention of a missing link in human evolution. After that, there was some talk about Jesus telling some guy how to drive his car, some profound spiritual statements that seem to have come from a Lifetime network B movie, lots of Bible quotes, and this constant discussion that suggests that anyone here can at all understand God.
God does not cry when you push him away. God is all knowing and all seeing and is understanding of you and your problems. After all, God is the cause of all of your problems, having created everything that we are and having created everything around us, including the universe and all of it's potential for science. God created the potential for evil in the hearts of men and created joy and greed equally in us. Don't underestimate God like you do people. God is far more knowing and seeing than the taco can every be.
Or is the taco God?
Dave
P.S. I'm an atheist.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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"It is wiser to find out than to suppose" Mark Twain
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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The fundamentalists really do pee in the pool of regular, religious churchgoers....
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Bronwyn
Trad climber
Not of This World
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Dec 18, 2009 - 07:38pm PT
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Oddly enough, it was when I went back to school to get a science degree (first one was a BA) that I started to re-think my agnostic, evolutionary viewpoint.
In studying molecular biology, it just started to occur to me that it was far too intricate and complex to have just evolved after some random "big bang" of energy. None of my professors could explain how the phospholipid bi-layer could have evolved. The more I studied, the less likely it seemed to be that it could have been anything other than intelligent design or intention somewhere along the way. It was still a long, long road to Christ, but I don't feel that I ever gave up my intelligence in exchange for faith. Or that anything required me to.
I love science. I love physics and both "The Tao of Physics" and "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" have been two of my favorite reads.
I know Christians who believe that God sparked the big bang and then nurtured along life on Earth. At the end of the day, I don't know if that aspect is what is truly important. For me, it is more simple: Do I believe that God sent His Son, in the divine person of Jesus, to walk with us and experience humanity before offering Himself up in exchange for my sins and shortcomings? Do I place my trust fully in Him alone? The answer for me, is Yes.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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"The fundamentalists really do pee in the pool of regular, religious churchgoers...."
Nice and yellow, lots of vitamins!
God gave us the gift of Jesus; mercy and forgiveness, as with all gifts you have to take them!
Daily Readings from the Life of Christ (vol.1) By John MacArthur http://www.gty.org/Radio/Archive
neebee...
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 08:07pm PT
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Locker, you want a stick for that? lol, I might barf...
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 09:13pm PT
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This is cool! We have a co-worker Migal over seas now!
Deck of Cards
It was quiet that day, the guns and the mortars, and land mines for some reason hadn't been heard.
The young soldier knew it was Sunday, the holiest day of the week.
As he was sitting there, he got out an old deck of cards and laid them out across his bunk.
Just then an army sergeant came in and said, 'Why aren't you with the rest of the platoon?'
The soldier replied, 'I thought I would stay behind and spend some time with the Lord.'
The sergeant said, 'Looks to me like you're going to play cards.'
The soldier said, 'No, sir . You see, since we are not allowed to have Bibles or other spiritual books in this country,
I've decided to talk to the Lord by studying this deck of cards.'
The sergeant asked in disbelief, 'How will you do that?'
'You see the Ace, Sergeant? It reminds me that there is only one God.
The Two represents the two parts of the Bible, Old and New Testaments
The Three represents the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
The Four stands for the Four Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John .
The Five is for the five virgins there were ten but only five of them were glorified.
The Six is for the six days it took God to create the Heavens and Earth.
The Seven is for the day God rested after making His Creation.
The Eight is for the family of Noah and his wife, their three sons and their wives -- the eight people God spared from the flood that destroyed the Earth.
The Nine is for the lepers that Jesus cleansed of leprosy He cleansed ten, but nine never thanked Him.
The Ten represents the Ten Commandments that God handed down to Moses on tablets made of stone.
The Jack is a reminder of Satan, one of God's first angels, but he got kicked out of heaven for his sly and wicked ways and is now the joker of eternal hell.
The Queen stands for the Virgin Mary.
The King stands for Jesus, for he is the King of all kings.
When I count the dots on all the cards, I come up with 365 total, one for every day of the year.
There are a total of 52 cards in a deck; each is a week - 52 weeks in a year.
The four suits represent the four seasons: Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter.
Each suit has thirteen cards -- there are exactly thirteen weeks in a quarter.
So when I want to talk to God and thank Him, I just pull out this old deck of cards and they remind me of all that I have to be thankful for.'
The sergeant just stood there.. After a minute, with tears in his eyes and pain in his heart, he said, 'Soldier, can I borrow that deck of cards?'
Please let this be a reminder and take time to pray for all of our soldiers who are being sent away, putting their lives on the line fighting
Prayer for the Military.
Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands.
Protect them.
Bless them and their families
I ask this in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
Amen
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 18, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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"Do I believe that God sent His Son, in the divine person of Jesus, to walk with us and experience humanity before offering Himself up in exchange for my sins and shortcomings? Do I place my trust fully in Him alone? The answer for me, is Yes."
No and No!
do I believe in god?
I've recently been all but convinced that I do.
or at least that what I do believe in, that is admitedly bigger or beyond us, can be called god. gawd!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
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Since Gobee posted a thread about our service men and women, and Jaybro just noted that one can believe in God without believing in a particular interpretation of Jesus, I would note that not all people who serve in the military are Christian or even religious.In fact, the sensible way the military handles diverse religions would be a good role model for civilians as well.
The largest Marine Corps Chapel here in Okinawa is in fact, the most ecumenical chapel in the U.S. military. In the main chapel building services are held for liberal Jews on Friday nights, Catholics on Saturday evenings, and on Sundays - Catholic, mainstream Protestant, and Black Gospel services. Separate rooms in the chapel complex accommodate, Muslims, Hindus, Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Christians.
The wall behind the movable altar has an alcove which houses the Torah scrolls, which can be covered by a curtain for the Christian services. For those, there is a big wooden cross and a similar size crussifix, Depending on the service, a pulley system is utilized, which pulls the appropriate cross out in front of the curtain which hides the Torah.
All congregations contribute to the flowers and once in a while there are minor problems like the Catholics want to observe Advent with purple altar cloths, and the Protestants want Christmas decorations up from at least Dec. 15. This Sunday, there will be a rather unaesthetic mix of purple cloths with red poinsettas as both groups get there way. Still, rather minor issues, all things considered.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:27pm PT
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The altar cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next.
Mark Twain
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Homer
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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Jan - that sounds really beautiful - the red and purple of mutual respect.
Last night - Happy Hanukkah all!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
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"The altar cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
"You wouldn't know a diamond if you held it in your hand!"
Steely Dan
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 18, 2009 - 10:51pm PT
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In studying molecular biology, it just started to occur to me that it was far too intricate and complex to have just evolved after some random "big bang" of energy. None of my professors could explain how the phospholipid bi-layer could have evolved. The more I studied, the less likely it seemed to be that it could have been anything other than intelligent design or intention somewhere along the way.
So, instead of being the guy to help figure it out, you skipped ahead and got your GDI degree. Lots of people have gone this route. G(od) D(id) I(t).
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Bronwyn
Trad climber
Not of This World
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Dec 18, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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Thought this was rather timely and appropriate. From CNN today:
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Nearly 800 years ago, Francis of Assisi made extraordinary move for peace
Paul Moses says he went unarmed to engage in dialogue with Egypt's sultan in midst of a crusade
Reaching across faiths is an authentic expression of Christian values, author says
Acts of compassion can be best way to "stir hearts and minds," he says
RELATED TOPICS
Religion
Christianity
Islam
War and Conflict
Editor's note: Paul Moses is the author of a new book, "The Saint and the Sultan: The Crusades, Islam and Francis of Assisi's Mission of Peace." (Doubleday, 2009). He is a professor of journalism at Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate School of Journalism.
New York (CNN) -- Evangelical Christian leaders such as Pat Robertson have assailed President Obama's effort to engage Iran, and the results so far have not vindicated the president's approach as a diplomatic policy.
But if these leaders' goal is to bring Christian attitudes into the realm of public policy -- which, of course, is what they have called for time and again -- they might just as well be thanking the president for his new strategy. That is what the experience of one of history's greatest Christians, Francis of Assisi, teaches us.
Francis engaged Christendom's enemy, Egypt's Sultan Malik al-Kamil, by approaching him unarmed in the midst of the Fifth Crusade in 1219. The Crusaders had laid siege to Damietta, a city at the mouth of the Nile where 80,000 people were dying of disease and starvation.
The Christian forces were hoping to conquer Egypt, which would not only make it easier to take and hold Jerusalem but would deal a heavy blow against all Islam.
Francis actually believed what Jesus said in the New Testament about loving his enemy and took a much different approach than his fellow Christians.
His goal was to convert Sultan al-Kamil to Christianity through peaceful persuasion. He didn't succeed in that, but, amazingly, the two men found common ground and appear to have genuinely appreciated each other.
The sultan, who no doubt viewed Francis in light of an ancient Muslim tradition of reverence for holy Christian monks, permitted him to stay in his camp for several days, preaching the enemy's faith in the midst of the Crusade.
Francis was so influenced by the unexpectedly tranquil encounter with the sultan that when he returned home, he attempted to revise his order's code of conduct to urge that his friars live peacefully among Muslims and "be subject" to them as a way of giving Christian witness -- a revolutionary approach, considering that the Crusade was still being fought.
Francis' journey to the sultan's camp on the east bank of the Nile should be viewed as a mission of peace, since the sultan's conversion might have led to the end of the Crusade.
Francis, it should be said, was a tireless advocate of peace, a stance that stems from the trauma he suffered as a soldier and prisoner of war when he was a young man who saw his comrades massacred on the battlefield.
Since discussion of war and peace is -- even today -- so tinged with religion, it may as well be based on authentic religion. Francis represents what it means to be an authentic Christian. As Pope Pius XI wrote in 1926 on the 700th anniversary of Francis's death: "There has never been anyone in whom the image of Jesus Christ ... shone forth more lifelike and strikingly than in St. Francis."
I don't mean to liken Obama to Francis; there are few human beings in any era who would benefit from comparison to the saint of Assisi. In any case, their situations are very different. Francis was unarmed and powerless when he approached the sultan; there was no hint of coercion.
Obama, on the other hand, is arguably the most powerful person in the world. He can disarm his rhetoric, but it would not be possible for him to approach an enemy in the same powerless way Francis did.
Still, Francis' example tells those who call themselves Christian that they should refrain from weaponizing their words and should seek peaceful solutions whenever possible.
An organization called Charter for Compassion is taking this approach. Gathering together supporters such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the Dalai Lama, singer Paul Simon and Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the grand mufti of Egypt, it has sought to restore compassion as the center for morality and religion. It calls for a "return to the ancient principle that any interpretation of scripture that breeds violence, hatred or disdain is illegitimate."
Obama, too, touched on the role of authentic religion in his Nobel Peace Prize speech on December 10. Citing both the World Trade Center attack and "the cruelties of the Crusades," he said, "Such a warped view of religion is not just incompatible with the concept of peace but the purpose of faith -- for the one rule that lies at the heart of every major religion is that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us."
Nearly 800 years ago, at a time when biblical passages were used to justify the Crusades, Francis of Assisi sought a return to true New Testament values. Whether through his famous love of animals or his stunning visit to the enemy in the midst of war, Francis helps us to remember that startling acts of compassion are sometimes the best way to stir hearts and minds.
For those who want to be guided by what Jesus would do, Francis of Assisi is a good place to start.
EDIT~St. Francis ROCKS!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 18, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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hey there jan... say, that is a very sweet and kind thing done (sharing the chapel, etc, by days, or time-sharing), so that everyone can have a say in their time of prayer, since they are so far from home... i never heard of that being done anywhwere, before... thanks for the share...
:)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 19, 2009 - 12:31am PT
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Thanks for the St. Francis story.
I highly recommend the film "Brother Sun, Sister Moon" Music by Donovan and filmed beautifully . The story of St Francis, well done
Peace
Karl
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