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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 06:15am PT
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That ball of wax is where I and philosophy part company - pure belief and pure logic - neither really blows my skirt up. I suspect most of the folks who love that end of the philosophy pool and don't end up mathematicians end up lawyers or politicians, or both.
Also, I've also worked in crisis intervention and interacted with a lot of schizophrenics and depressives in whom the notions and boundaries of belief and reality exhibit whole new dimensions of expression.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 07:00am PT
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Forty one dollars.
Knowledge of god like this would be cheap at any price
From MacArthur’s shop
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God, Satan, and Angels
Code: 185
Scripture: Selected Scriptures
Price: 41.00
Someone has said that the most important thing about you is what comes to your mind when you think about God.
It’s true. What you believe about God has serious, long-term impact on how you live. Every thought, word, action, and attitude is ultimately a reflection of your beliefs—right or wrong—about God and His character.
With so much at stake, there’s really no more important pursuit than sorting out reality from myth and knowing God for who He really is. John MacArthur takes you to the Bible for an accurate, in-depth portrait of God Himself, as well as the other powerful inhabitants of the supernatural realm—Satan, demons, and God’s invisible army of holy angels.
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http://www.gty.org/Shop/Audio+Series/185
Edit:
Not to worry Jan. The thought that my main difficulty might be misinterpreted forced me to write it down a little more directly.
In a society people have a responsibility to each other. That responsibility can't be shucked off.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 07:15am PT
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John MacArthur takes you to the Bible for an accurate, in-depth portrait of ... other powerful inhabitants of the supernatural realm —Satan, demons, and God’s invisible army of holy angels.
I'm sorry, but this is where tooth fairies come back into play. Tooth fairies are out - a total insult - but angels, demons, and invisible armies are somehow pedestrian and o.k.? How about Scientology's Thetans? Insult or o.k.?
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:08am PT
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healy, the Russell quote reminds me of something Dawkins said,
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further
I'm sure you've read about Russell's celestial teapot analogy - http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Russell%27s_Teapot
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
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I have not done a statistical analysis but the great majority of comments on this thread in favor
of a god prominently featured how that belief has helped the believer.
I opined above that I thought what christ was talking about had to do with how we treated each
other. That hypothesis even received some agreement.
Now during christ's time, just as during our own time, the thing that most cries out for
improvement is the treatment we give each other. I have to ask………..
If christ showed up tomorrow and continued to teach what he taught before, why are we to
believe he would receive better treatment this time?
It is not clear that we listened then and it does not seem we know any better now.
For 41 drachmas I am sure mellifluous words could have been purchased in the time of Herod
the Great.
And there were bitter arguments as to which of us were true believers.
We have come a long way, have we not?
Though we have since set foot on the moon, the rest is all entirely unchanged.
Believers must learn to question.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
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Knock. Knock.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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Did I say "Jesus"
See it's really all in YOUR mind Dr F.
You really don't have any clue what you're talking about period.
You're just some ranter spewing into the void .....
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:06pm PT
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The thing that really comes through is that 2000 years ago people were fighting bitterly over who
was the true believer.
John MacArthur continues the self same dialog above.
With Gobee providing us the lyrics.
No change.
After 2000 years?
So it comes down to this. Believers like everything just the way it is.
Perhaps that is what all of this is about.
Really seems to be.
Even after we have tunnelled through into parallel universes and have shown Einstein missed
something, when we get back home people will still be claiming to be the only true believers
and Gobee will be providing the lyrics.
Now mind you all of this is hypothesis. But think back to my statement "evil attaches itself to good."
Christ tried to teach us something new.
His "believers" seem determined to maintain the staus quo at any cost and have successfully done so for 2000 years.
If that ain't attachment, I don't know what is.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:11pm PT
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jstan- "41 dollars".
jstan- "41 drachmas".
John, what is your point about the 41 whatever?
That is merely one option!!
You can listen to the sermon for free!
Click on "Listen"!
Or you can read the sermon/lecture for free!
Just click on "Read"!
That is what I did this morning when you first posted the John MacArthur thread.
Or, if you are so inclined you can evidently by all nine CD package for forty one dollars! I never have! I usually read it or listen to it for FREE!!!
Most people do. So what is the issue??
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:15pm PT
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MacArthur has stated that the "theology of Islam is false," and that Allah is the "wrong god.
He's definitely a very confused man ......
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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Indeed.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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He's definitely a very confused man ......
MacArthur is confused, but you are knott? Therein lies the dilemma of authority.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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Healyje
You're a very confused man too ...........
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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Even the Jewish people don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah, same God, but not the way God say's to believe! I know that they will believe in Him one day and they will be the best Christians because they are the natural branches, same with the Muslims.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
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Dilemma: a choice or situation involving choice between equally unsatisfactory alternatives
Hypothesis:
Humans or a subset of humans are unable to handle dilemma.
So a better alternative
is invented.
Edit:
Take Jeff, for example. (Please!)
Taking a deadly serious thread
and trying to have fun with it.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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Actually Jeff's post is not really a joke although he would like it to be seen in that light.
His statement is the religion of gross materialism.
Sectarianism as religion is what causes the problems.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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You're a very confused man too ........
How do you know you aren't the confused one? I'm more inclined to think the more absolute you're beliefs are in this realm, the more confused you are.
Oh, and was that a hell yes vote for angels, demons, and invisible armies?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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As one approaches the intersection, ....
Speeding down the road the light turns red
Question all authority, I do not believe this red light means stop today for its my holiday .....
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