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Norton

Social climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
WHY does Bernie not talk about what matters?

And what matters is the 270 Electoral Votes that are added up from each state in order in become President.

Bernie talks only the popular national vote between him and Hillary versus Trump.

Bernie leaves out the fact that he has not had 500 million dollars in Sanders=Socialist+Hitler advertising the Republicans will throw at him IF he was the nominee.

Get real Bernie, you made your points, maybe you moved things a tad left, but you are not electable in this country on the national level. Hang in until the convention then fade away in history.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
Well, you guys keep voting for what you don't want. Best of luck with that!
Norton

Social climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
?

what do you mean, Gary?

Dems here vote for the Dem candidate and Repubs do the same

how is that voting for what we don't want?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 28, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
what do you mean, Gary?

Norton, many here are going to vote for the lesser of two evils, like it is a smart choice. Bah! Humbug! I say. Vote for what you want, how else will you ever get it?

It was people voting for the old Socialist Party that brought about the New Deal, not Democratic voters.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 28, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
Here's one way Bernie's revolution will continue...

https://brandnewcongress.org/#timeline
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 28, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
Not bad.
kattz

climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
This is the kind of "democracy" they want to bring...No, thanks. That's the mentality that everyone "owes" them something. Little bratty kids are upset the mom took the toy away...sounds funny...till they get to power.
http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/clinton-sanders-superdelegates-harassed/
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:51am PT
The BNC is what progressives and all democrats should be focused on as no president is getting much done when the opposition holds the reigns in congress. Starting now it would take a strong and concerted effort to retake the house in the 2020-24 timeframe.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Apr 29, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Interesting analysis:

http://johnlaurits.com/2016/04/28/this-is-what-will-happen-at-the-democratic-convention/

This is What Will Happen at the Democratic Convention

by John Laurits April 28, 2016.

Can Sanders do it? Or is Clinton truly inevitable?

Bernie Sanders has vowed to fight relentlessly for the 2016 Democratic Party’s nomination up to the convention and, despite the apparent consensus of the media’s talking heads that the campaign is a lost cause, he has held fast to his claim that there is a “narrow path to victory.” I am reminded of Galadriel’s ominous words of advice, in the Fellowship of the Ring: "The quest stands upon the edge of a knife — stray but a little, and it will fail"…

It has even become something of a weekly occurrence for Hillary Clinton and her Wallstreet-backed campaign to imply, insinuate, or flat-out demand that Sanders withdraw his bid for the nomination — they are growing increasingly indignant about the fact that Sanders is trying to win. Which brings us to the heart of the issue — can Bernie Sanders–can we–win the delegates needed for the nomination?

The answer to this question is as simple as it is misleading — No. No, my friends, we cannot. And yet–! And yet, neither can Hillary Clinton — and I am going to show you what the media is willfully hiding from you. I am going to show you why, using the one thing that even the media can’t hide: Math.

Why Clinton Will Not Secure the Nomination, According to Math

According to the Green Papers, Clinton stands (today, April 28th) with 1,664 pledged delegates, while Sanders has gathered 1,371. The amount of delegates needed to secure the nomination is 2,383 and, if you’ll pardon me for my use of arithmetic, I will now demonstrate why that number is hopelessly out of reach for the Clinton campaign.

Hillary needs 719 more delegates to reach 2,383 because:

2,383 – 1,664 = 719

Now, the pledged delegates that are available to grab in the remaining states all-together amount to 1,016 and in order to attain that blessed number, Clinton will have to win an average of 70.7% of the remaining states. This is because:

719 ÷ 1,016 = 0.707677 or approximately 71%

You might be thinking that 71% is not such an unattainable number for Hillary and her powerful Wallstreet backers — you might be thinking that but you’d be betting against longer odds than would be wise. You see, of the 1,016 delegates remaining, 475 of those delegates are to be won in California, alone — California, which has a semi-open primary. California, where Clinton is polling at a mere 49%. California, where Clinton’s support has been declining as the Sanders Campaign gains visibility and momentum. California — the ace that Sanders, as much as the media, have concealed up his sleeve.

It is no secret that Sanders, a previously invisible independent senator from the tiny state of Vermont, consistently climbs in the polls as he begins to campaign in the weeks before each state has had its primary. You don’t have to take my word for it — check the poll-histories for yourself.

Because Bernie Sanders performs at his absolute best in open primaries and because he consistently rises in the polls, while Clinton consistently falls, it is extremely unlikely that Clinton will perform better than 49 points, let alone win the contest. Let’s do some more math:

Of the 475 delegates available in California on June 7th, lets say Hillary takes 49% of those (even though she will almost certainly take less). That would give her 232.75 delegates, which we’ll round up to an even 234.

475 x 0.49 = 232.75

Next, let’s add that to her current total of 1,664, bringing her up to 1,897. Now, she needs an additional 486 delegates to reach the magic number of 2,383, right? Let’s find out how many delegates Clinton would have to win in the remaining states (besides California, of course).

Of the 541 delegates left, once the 475 CA delegates have been subtracted from the 1,016 delegate total, Clinton is going to have to win almost 90% of the remaining non-California delegates! This is because, when you divide the number of delegates that Clinton needs after California by the number of delegates remaining after California, you get 0.898 or 89%, rounded down:

486 ÷ 541 = 0.898 or 89.8%

Now, how likely does that sound? It’s not likely in Oregon, a fairly progressive state that shares its general attitudes with Washington, a state that Sanders won with about 70% of the vote. It’s not likely in West Virginia, either, where Sanders is currently leading in the polls. Nor is it likely in Indiana where Sanders and Clinton are almost neck-and-neck, which votes on May 3rd. That nomination is feeling a lot further away now, isn’t it?

Okay, okay — maybe you’re thinking, “John, I think you’re being unfair, Clinton could certainly win California.” To which I would reply: I admire your optimism, my friend — and since you’re so optimistic, let’s run those numbers again — but this time, let’s assume that Clinton, for whatever reason, defies the consistent trends that have prevailed over the entire primary season. Let’s say, she jumps up 11% now, winning the California primary with 60% of the vote. So:

475 x 0.6 = 285

Now, add the 285 delegates to Clinton’s current total:

285 + 1,664 = 1,949

But:

2,383 – 1,949 = 434

So, Clinton will still need to scrape up 434 delegates somewhere other than California, some how. Which means — Hold on, first we have to figure out how much of the remaining delegates she’ll have to win:

434 ÷ 541 = .802218 or 80%

Wow! Even if Clinton actually wins California with 60% to Sanders with 40%, she will still have to secure about 80% of the remaining vote! Again, this certainly doesn’t seem likely in Oregon, West Virginia, or Indiana, which means the actual percentage would climb each time she failed to take 80% of a state! Now, are you starting to see why I am saying that Clinton will not be securing the nomination before the convention?

Part Two: Why Sanders Will Win, According to Math

If you’ve found yourself thinking, “Well, Sanders won’t secure the nomination, either!” You are almost 100% right! Well, 99.6% right, anyway. Because, if we take Sanders’ current delegate total of 1,371, subtract that from the magic 2,383, then divide that by the remaining available delegates, we get 0.996, see:

2,383 – 1,371 = 1,012

1,012 ÷ 1,016 = 0.996 or 99.6%

Therefore, Sanders would have to secure a whopping 99.6% victory in all remaining states to secure the nomination! I think this may be one of the few things that both Berners and Clintonistas could agree on: that that is impossible. But to those of you that are thinking, “John! This is terrible” or “Haha! Take that, Sanders!” I would reply: You are both wrong. Mostly. Let me explain:

First off, let’s acknowledge that the math seems to prohibit both candidates from securing the nomination before the convention — so what does this mean? This means that, since Sanders will not give up before the convention, there will almost certainly be a “contested convention.”

“Um… But John…” you may be saying, “Won’t Hillary still be miles ahead of Sanders in votes at the convention?”

To which I would reply: I’m glad you asked, my paid Hillary-supporter friend! Allow me to demonstrate how that will also not be the case, no matter what the media would have you believe. Follow me!

Since neither of them will be securing the 2,383 needed for the nomination, let’s take a look at another number that has been hiding in plain sight for far too long. I’d like you to meet the number, 4,051. That’s the number of total pledged delegates that are available from all 50 states, plus DC, US territories, and the Democrats abroad. As it should be obvious, a majority of these delegates would be 2,026 because:

4,051 ÷ 2 = 2,025.5

At the convention, this number is going to matter more than the unattainable 2,383 delegates that no one will have. That being the case, let’s take a look at what Bernie Sanders would have to do to get there. If Sanders won 60% of the remaining contests (and remember how 475 of 1,016 are in California, where Sanders will do well), then the numbers at the convention would look like this:

1,016 x .60 = 609.6

Round that to 610 and add it to Sanders current total of 1,371, then divide that by the total delegate count, 4,051:

610 + 1,371 = 1,981

1,981 ÷ 4,051 = .489 or 48.9%

So, in the scenario where Sanders takes about 60% of the remaining vote, we’re essentially looking at a 49 to 51% vote total at the convention — not so bad, eh? And that’s easily within Sanders’ reach, if we do well in California (which we almost certainly will). Let’s look at what happens if he takes 70% (just like he did last time we went to the West/Left Coast):

1,016 x .70 = 711.2, round it down to 711, then:

711 + 1,371 = 2,082

2,082 ÷ 4,051 = 0.513 or 51.3%

If Sanders took 70%, the convention would look like 51.3 to 48.7%, in favor of Sanders! But 70%, while possible, is a bit of a stretch — the new magic number, for Sanders anyway, is actually 64.4% of the remaining states, which would mean winning 655 of the 1,016 remaining delegates, pushing his total up to 2,026, the bare majority of delegates, leaving Clinton one delegate behind at 2,025.

Now, does Sanders winning 64.4% sound too far-fetched? Not particularly, especially when we consider his advantages on the Left Coast, in California’s 475 delegate semi-open primary. An uphill climb, though? Certainly. Remember, though: it is all but certain that Clinton will not secure the nomination, while Sanders supporters are going to be pouring into Philadelphia for the convention by the tens of thousands. Even if Bernie fell short by a few points, we’re still essentially looking at a tie. And that’s when all hell is going to break loose.

Things are going to become very interesting if we have a near-tie at the convention to be decided by the super-delegates.

Things are going to become very interesting when they look back at the many states that are still crying out for a re-vote, states fraught with “voting irregularities,” polling station closures, and voter roll purges — all states which Clinton won and all states which so far have not received justice.

Things are going to become very interesting when the DNC and the super-delegates realize that Sanders, unlike the Wallstreet-backed Clinton-Machine, will bring in not only millions of independent voters that were unable to vote in the primaries, but even defecting Republican votes, sealing the GOP’s utter defeat in November.

Things are going to become very interesting when, while they are thinking about all of these things, they are doing so to the earth-shaking, thunderous chants of “Sanders! Sanders!” from his tens of thousands of supporters outside, who have time-and-again proven their ability to rally by the tens of thousands — do you think that we won’t do the same at the convention?

And finally, things are going to become very, very interesting when the super-delegates and the DNC are forced to choose, publicly, whether to hand the nomination to Clinton and watch the millions of independents walk away, along with millions of former-democrat Sanders-supporters, basically handing the general election to the neo-fascists Trump or Cruz — or, to hand it to Sanders, a leader who will have the support, not only of the entire Democratic Party, but of millions of Independents, Green Party voters, and — yes, indeed — even Republicans defecting from the extremist GOP. That will be the most interesting part, I think. I’ll see you all in Philadelphia.

In Solidarity,

John Laurits

P.S. Please feel totally free to reproduce this article, re-post, re-use, re-cycle, or whatever, in whole or in part — credit would be lovely but, ultimately, I don’t really care! Do as ye will! Peace!

#SeeYouInPhilly
Norton

Social climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
wow

thanks for posting that MisterE, very interesting appraisal

and based on that math it looks very well like a horrible, contested Democratic convention
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
Arithmetic is a subversive concept used by left-wing extremists to undermine the will of the people. ;-(

very interesting, thanks for posting that MisterE
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
5467۴* + 45.~ۥ = it's over.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Interesting no not really more like ZZZZZZZ!
kief

Trad climber
east side
Apr 29, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
As my dad used to say, "Figures don't lie, but liars sometimes figure."

Three million more Democrats have voted for Clinton than Sanders in the primaries. Super delegates are not going to overturn their choice. He will not be the nominee.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Apr 30, 2016 - 06:36am PT
Here's some different math:
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11528764/closed-primaries-bernie-sanders
Sparky

Trad climber
vagabond movin on
May 1, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
http://wontvotehillary.com/thank-you

Don't even have to take the pledge....just watch and listen.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 2, 2016 - 05:42am PT
Another one signs on for Trump. Congratulations...your encyclopedias are on the way!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 2, 2016 - 09:17am PT
The Sanders campaign, is clinging to hope, that the "email scandal", will explode, leaving him the last man standing. So many lies surrounding the investigation, impossible to tell what is true and what is not.

But he's a Senator, and privy to information we do not see. So there must be something going on.

Meanwhile, there was our Presidents emergency trip to Al Saud to persuade them not to cash in 750Bn in T-Bills. The fact he is worried about it, prolly means it's a BFD. Will the economy explode before or after the election? Stay tuned.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 09:47am PT
MisterE posted
According to the Green Papers, Clinton stands (today, April 28th) with 1,664 pledged delegates, while Sanders has gathered 1,371. The amount of delegates needed to secure the nomination is 2,383 and, if you’ll pardon me for my use of arithmetic, I will now demonstrate why that number is hopelessly out of reach for the Clinton campaign.

This guy is completely deluded and using his logic the 2008 convention should have been contested. 50%+1 of the pledged delegates is 2026. The 2383 number includes the SuperDelegates. There are 1016 pledged delegates outstanding meaning Clinton could win a mere 38% of those remaining and win a majority of pledged delegates. Arguing that you can't count superdelegates towards the win but you have to count them towards the definition of what winning is is beyond inauthentic. This idea that Clinton will only win because of superdelegates or that the people weren't with her, the system was, is absurd. Barring catastrophe, Clinton will clinch the nomination with majorities of pledged delegates, superdelegates and strait up votes.

I just listened to Sanders spin his ass off on Face the Nation and people are so caught feeling the Bern they can't even smell what they're stepping in.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
May 2, 2016 - 10:40am PT
some text from the link I posted upthread; note 'Abramowitz' is Alan Abramowitz from Emory University:


To calculate the effect of the closed primary, Abramowitz found the difference in independents (which he calculated with registrations and exit polls) as a percentage of the vote share in open and closed primaries. In other words, he found the extent to which the different kinds of primaries are dominated by Democrats.

So far this year, self-described independents make up 7.5 percentage points more of the primary electorate in open primaries than they do in closed primaries. Abramowitz then multiplied that number by what his model found as the effect of the partisan composition of the electorate — giving him the 4.7 point figure.

So what does this mean for the Democratic primary?

A flip of nearly 5 percentage points sounds like a big effect, and in some ways it really is.

But it wouldn't meaningfully change the outcome of the race. Only six states — New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Connecticut, Delaware, and Florida — have held closed primaries since the race began.

Mathematically, if we changed all of the closed primaries to open primaries, we could generously assume Sanders would have done 5 points better in each of the six states. Because of the Democrats' proportional allocation rules, that would probably give Sanders around 5 percent more delegates in each of the six contests.

Add those up, and Sanders would have won 41 more delegates than he currently has. Clinton is currently leading Sanders by 293 delegates (without even counting the superdelegates).

Similarly, if you converted all of the open primaries into closed primaries, Clinton would net about 76 more delegates, according to Abramowitz.
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