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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:26am PT
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I don't know of any other God but the God of the Bible, the Alpha and Omega the Great I Am, And His Son Jesus through whom all things were made. Who is Holy and Righteous and above all things, who is Love, and who loved us so much that to bridge the separations that sin caused sent His only Son to the cross that we could be redeemed and forgiven. We are all Gods creation and equally His children through Jesus. God told us His plan from the beginning to the end in the Bible. When we see His heavens and earth, who are we? Our Lord God is mighty and wonderful from everlasting to everlasting, worthy to be worshiped and praised with thanksgiving in our hearts! And that doesn't come close!
Daily Readings from the Life of Christ (vol.1) By John MacArthur
http://www.gty.org/Radio/Archive
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:27am PT
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I would say (I know others may disagree) that the scripture that is more authoritative is the one that speaks to you individually.
That's all very pastoral, but that idea that scripture and belief are merely subjective is vehemently rejected by millions, including people in this thread as Gobee just testified above. They are not in any way open to the suggestion or idea of other gods or scriptures, and we won't even go into highly spiritual cultures with no written scripture.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:27am PT
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You can make "world view" sound quite hoity-toity if you say "weltanschauung" instead. Those Germans do love their compound nouns.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:31am PT
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base 104-
I am so glad to hear about your mother!
As I noted before, leukemia is a really debilitating disease for the sick person and all who know them. One thing I learned from my friend's ordeal with the disease was to never ever give up. Except for the head oncologist, everyone in the Japanese hospital where he was, said no one could survive with total liver and kidney failure but he did and has been in remission for 8 years.
If your mother has the will to live, there's always hope.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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Ed-
Thanks!
healyje-
I still don't get it???
My students work in ultra air conditioned rooms or on special planes, with headsets on and computers in front of them far from the front lines, thank to our excellent satellites.
And the worst that ever happened to their group (not any of my students as it turned out) was when one of their planes was forced down in Hainan a few years ago and they had to destroy their own equipment as fast as they could. After that they stayed in a resort for a while and ate a lot of good Chinese food until they were flown home.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:54am PT
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Rent the movie, to be recruited into military intelligence you have to display psychic 'apttitude'.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Dec 16, 2009 - 03:50am PT
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Base!
If I could go back to, say, Jr. Hi. I think I would major in astrophysics or astronomy. I have always been amazed at the stars, the galaxy's, Milky Way and such things as the speed of light. I have always loved science and microscopes/biology etc. Including neuroscience, and the study of the human anatomy. We had cadavers in 3-4 of my classes (college) and in several post-grad courses I have taken. Just fascinating. Life!
I realy don't fully understand the hoopla, or conflict, or threat that someone like 'roadman' seems to loath. But then I don't have any agenda as far as trying to turn the current situation of science in the classroom around and teach it from a "creationist" viewpoint.
I am not 'compromising' my beliefs, I just feel that it is a matter of faith and something that should be taught in the home and at church. I look at it as a matter of a marvel of a Grand Designer. He will explain the particulars, such as is if wheather the speed of light is a constant outside of our galaxy?
And what period of time, or how did time translate from His day, such as "A day is like a thousand years..." etc. I have no doubt He created it. Maybe He created it with age. Convincing others this, is not my focus! The reason He came here is my focus. It was not for me to become wealthy. This is a temporal place. He was concerned about our eternal existence.
I believe some day I will be able to explore those galaxies...maybe! Not sure, it doesn't say so in the Bible. But it is fun to think about.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 05:11am PT
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The tooth fairy and ghosts comment was in no way an insult - it may strike a nerve - but tooth fairies and ghosts are way on the conservative side of what some people ardently believe. And that simply gets back to the problem, does the mere holding of a belief make it a 'reality'. Do you accept tooth fairies, ghosts, and UFOs, Yeti, Aliens, and all of history's gods with the same veracity? Where is that line? Who defines it?
Again, does simply believing something make it real? If not, at what point upon the the continuum of belief does something become real? Skipt dismisses ghosts, others do not. UFOs have a devout following, others do not belive. A 5 year old might believe in the tooth fairy, adults typically do not. A 6,000 year old Earth; many believe it literally, they do not equivocate, others do. But as a geologist, which is more believable - tooth fairies or a 6,000 year old Earth? Is a hindu belief more credible, valid, or believable than a scientology belief?
At what point do beliefs become believable or unbelievable? Where does authority or supremacy of belief or interpretation appear on that continuum?
I have no problem exiting the conversation given it seems almost entirely immune to common sense and is clearly afraid of the most basic boundaries of logic and believability. It's as if one man's 5.5 is another man's 5.11 with no possible or plausible intrusion of objective measure of any kind - it's all good and valid - you just have to believe.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 06:02am PT
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First, sorry your Mother, you, and your family are going through hard times. I've spent time visiting in an ICU and attending to two family funerals in the past month so you definitely have my sympathy.
In the end I don't try to compete with great philosophers, but do align myself closely with Russell:
As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God.
On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.
--Bertrand Russell / 1947 pamphlet / Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 06:15am PT
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That ball of wax is where I and philosophy part company - pure belief and pure logic - neither really blows my skirt up. I suspect most of the folks who love that end of the philosophy pool and don't end up mathematicians end up lawyers or politicians, or both.
Also, I've also worked in crisis intervention and interacted with a lot of schizophrenics and depressives in whom the notions and boundaries of belief and reality exhibit whole new dimensions of expression.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 07:00am PT
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Forty one dollars.
Knowledge of god like this would be cheap at any price
From MacArthur’s shop
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God, Satan, and Angels
Code: 185
Scripture: Selected Scriptures
Price: 41.00
Someone has said that the most important thing about you is what comes to your mind when you think about God.
It’s true. What you believe about God has serious, long-term impact on how you live. Every thought, word, action, and attitude is ultimately a reflection of your beliefs—right or wrong—about God and His character.
With so much at stake, there’s really no more important pursuit than sorting out reality from myth and knowing God for who He really is. John MacArthur takes you to the Bible for an accurate, in-depth portrait of God Himself, as well as the other powerful inhabitants of the supernatural realm—Satan, demons, and God’s invisible army of holy angels.
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http://www.gty.org/Shop/Audio+Series/185
Edit:
Not to worry Jan. The thought that my main difficulty might be misinterpreted forced me to write it down a little more directly.
In a society people have a responsibility to each other. That responsibility can't be shucked off.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 07:15am PT
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John MacArthur takes you to the Bible for an accurate, in-depth portrait of ... other powerful inhabitants of the supernatural realm —Satan, demons, and God’s invisible army of holy angels.
I'm sorry, but this is where tooth fairies come back into play. Tooth fairies are out - a total insult - but angels, demons, and invisible armies are somehow pedestrian and o.k.? How about Scientology's Thetans? Insult or o.k.?
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:08am PT
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healy, the Russell quote reminds me of something Dawkins said,
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further
I'm sure you've read about Russell's celestial teapot analogy - http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Russell%27s_Teapot
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
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I have not done a statistical analysis but the great majority of comments on this thread in favor
of a god prominently featured how that belief has helped the believer.
I opined above that I thought what christ was talking about had to do with how we treated each
other. That hypothesis even received some agreement.
Now during christ's time, just as during our own time, the thing that most cries out for
improvement is the treatment we give each other. I have to ask………..
If christ showed up tomorrow and continued to teach what he taught before, why are we to
believe he would receive better treatment this time?
It is not clear that we listened then and it does not seem we know any better now.
For 41 drachmas I am sure mellifluous words could have been purchased in the time of Herod
the Great.
And there were bitter arguments as to which of us were true believers.
We have come a long way, have we not?
Though we have since set foot on the moon, the rest is all entirely unchanged.
Believers must learn to question.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
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Knock. Knock.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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Did I say "Jesus"
See it's really all in YOUR mind Dr F.
You really don't have any clue what you're talking about period.
You're just some ranter spewing into the void .....
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