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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I wonder what Mandelbrote's take is on all this.
Anything out there published by him?
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Did you guys see this cool picture? On their message board, no less!
(edit: okay, back to work)
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Ed- Nice info. But since human activities are only contributing 3.4% of the annual CO2 being added to the atmosphere we should go after some of the big
emitters rather than screwing up our economy.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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That's awesome, Ed.
I'm impressed you're hanging in here... and grateful for you!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Yep, Ed is an absolutely irreplaceable asset to this forum.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Ed,
The last graph very interesting. Summarizes it really well. Good stuff.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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yes, ed is an indispensable contributor to this thread...even if it's all greek to me
anyway, can somebody explain this guy who claims the raw data from australia shows no warming but the "adjusted" data shows a 6 degrees/century rise in temps that just coincidentally coincides with the cru graph?
according to him, all climate data comes from three sources...cru's raw data is gone (some say lost, some say destroyed), and we're still waiting for the raw data from nasa
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/
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dirtbag
climber
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and who cares who makes the claims or where they are published? if it's about the science then debate the science instead of mocking the publication
Because sources do matter. If you want to gather fodder for an honest debate, then find an honest source that isn't going to cherry pick its facts. I'd bet money you are only getting 1/10 of the whole story from Londborg.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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dirt, lomborg is NOT the source...the published scientific studies on kilimanjaro's snowmelt are the sources...lomborg isn't claiming he knows why the melting occurs; he's simply pointing out that there are scientists who have published different theories
ed, i was being somewhat facetious; i'm not a scientists but i'm doing my best to understand the science...some people say co2...some people say water...some people say solar activity...some people say natural climatic changes that nobody really understands...all of the theories make sense to me
but all i hear from you is co2, co2, co2...it's all people, people, people...so, yes, when i find scientists with different theories, i want to understand them, too, and i'm highly suspicious of those who keep insisting there are no other theories, especially when those 'deniers' are admittedly guilty of hiding data and manipulating the publishing process
and i'm especially resistant when the agw crowd supports ridiculous proposals like barry's promise to take us back to the 1800s...
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WBraun
climber
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Whatever anyone's take on this subject matter is, ya all better get your sh'it together because this planet right now is in a very unhealthy state.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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^^
HA! I love it, Werner!
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Werner's cartoon says it all
Peace
Karl
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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What if what we create isn't a better world?
John
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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If you are no fan of the seemingly continual strategic planning that now goes on in the govt and associated entities, you need look no further than this piece of legislation.
<light bulb goes on>
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Thanks Ed, for the links. I have downloaded and copied a few hundred pages of reports, which I will read. I think that everyone who has posted or read along should read the summary report for the IPCC fourth report (2007) and the The Copenhagen Analysis just published to update the science since the IPCC report. In this debate, I don’t think anyone should have an opinion one way or the other unless they are willing to put in that effort.
There are two camps of true believers that say either that global warming will be so damaging to all forms of life that we must shut down all CO2 and N2O production now or, that no significant global warming is caused by humans. Both of these camps are making it difficult, either by fudging data or withholding it, or cherry picking and setting up straw men to trumpet their true beliefs.
What I am looking for in the reports Ed points to are the scope and robustness of the findings of the IPCC--this is the main complaint of the skeptics, but it can be checked. (If the 2007 IPCC report shows the plus and minus estimates of all plausible effects, then the skeptic's paper that I read falls apart.) This doesn't mean that the science has it right but we should expect to have unbiased estimators: the commitment of money and coordinated action amongst all the economies needs a very robust basis for action--the fix is gonna hurt. Everyone should be demanding robust science in light of the impact of both global warming and the cost of avoiding it.
Thanks again Ed.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Dec 10, 2009 - 01:02am PT
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My Oceanography professor called the climate change debate more fear mongering last quarter and many of my business professors have noted that these carbon tax credits and such are just trade tariffs in disguise for trade protectionism.
I for one think there are holes in the argument but I do acknowledge that pollution is a major problem.
The planet has gone through ice ages and super warm cycles in the past. The amount of CO2 in the air is much higher, but that doesn't prove that we could be in the midst of a climate shift due to Earth's natural cycles.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 01:45am PT
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Ed - I say the albedo change is overwhelming and reject the proposed linkage to the rise in CO2 for the accelerated snow pack melting.
As other Climate Change researchers say, "I'm right and they're wrong".
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