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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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Never anything useful, thoughtful, or productive to contribute.
FAIL
[edit after two hours] Gotta love TwistedCrank's lame then retracted posting behavior. Again, nothing useful, thoughtful, or productive.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Nov 25, 2009 - 03:31pm PT
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1st time i ever read anything that lowest wrote which has made any sense whatsoever
you can't go back in time
you can't get a re-do
whatever people say now can never change what has been said, and that seems like what you are really after, as far as i can tell
past is past
future is a dream
neither is real, neither matters
why not live right now?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 25, 2009 - 05:13pm PT
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I live right now. I tried to climb Wings of Steel. I have climbed a few routes on El Cap, including at least one hard one of SG's. I and my partner got up SG's route - scary, hard, superb - without cheating. But I couldn't climb Mark and Richard's route because it is too hard for me. And since Wings of Steel stands unrepeated after various second ascent attempts, I'm not the only one who finds it hard.
I've seen what's up there - it's scary and runout and hard. It is not overbolted, I could see no evidence of any enhancement at all, and I was looking. That there are no apparent enhancements is curious considering how many have attempted to climb it since, but that's certainly good news.
I do knott understand why SG continues to hurl accusations and repeat questions which Richard and Mark have already addressed - in excruciating detail! - because it makes him look like a fool. SG's has not climbed Wings of Steel, nor has he even set foot on it so far as I am aware, and his accusations are in direct opposition to the observations I myself have made. Accordingly his accusations carry no value, and should be disregarded. I do knott know why he feels such animosity towards Mark and Richard. Perhaps his penis is very small?
I spent considerable time getting to know Mark and Richard in person, to listen to their story, and to climb their route. They are two of the most forthright and credible men I have ever met, and I feel priveleged to call them my friends. I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the information they have provided to us regarding Wings of Steel is true to the best of their knowledge, although we ought to cut everyone a bit of slack when it comes to remembering conversations that happened a quarter-century ago.
Peter Zabrok, of shrunken bollocks,
Ontario, Canada
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 25, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Once LEB visits your thread........
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Nov 25, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
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loisified!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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LEB, you are asking the wrong person your questions. Our motivations for continuing to correct the ongoing distortions are very clear, and anybody being honest with themselves can relate to those motivations.
What motivates people like SG at this point? What does SG hope to gain at this point?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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I think Pete just said it all.
Mr Gossman, most all of us respect you and your routes, but it appears this time you need to stand down and bow out. You made your case, but a jury of peers do not agree. As the route appears to withstand that oldest of tests, the test of time.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 08:14pm PT
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Richard- Where did you originally envision WOS finishing up before almost four weeks on the Great Slab and blown out homemade portaledges ledges pushed you left to the Aquarian?
Pete's inability to climb the bottom pitches of WOS with a toprope and long cheaterstick doesn't really establish anything IMO. The Jolly Roger didn't even see a repeat before it had several holes added to it, by the way. Hard to say what sort of shape it was in by the time Pete got there. Pete did see fit to add a couple of holes of his own, right Pete?
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Gene
Social climber
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Nov 25, 2009 - 08:31pm PT
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Steve,
Wings of Steel never happened. It's an urban legend. K? Snopes will verify. Let it f*#king go already. Have you a life?
gene malone
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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Certainly do and I choose to spend some of my energy here on the ST doing all sorts of posting. These guys bellowing for an apoogy is one of the reasons that I showed up here, nkay?
If any of you folks can't stand the tone, content or direction of my comments then just ignore the thread in question and peruse something else.
These guys really like the attention when all is said and done and only choose to participate on this forum when their routes are the subject of discussion.
A couple days climbing up and down and I will be quite content with the situation.
Matt- What are you doing next spring?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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SG, listen to Studly. It's good advice, and as time passes I predict that it is advice you will more and more wish you had heeded.
You asked for "clear" accounts of the "enhancements," and you have them. In three different places on this thread alone I have answered the same question about how many hook placements were "enhanced." In not one of those cases have you acknowledged receiving that information. So, before you are entitled to ask any more questions, let's get clear about two things:
1) As I said, my motivations on these threads are clear, but yours are not. Inquiring minds want to know: what motivates you on these threads? Until you clearly answer that question, you are not entitled to ask more questions of us.
2) Do you agree that I have been entirely clear and forthright about the "enhancement" percentages and numbers? This is, after all, the topic of this thread.
Until we establish that one point, I have nothing more to discuss with you, because until that point is clear, I fully expect that you will continue to assert that we have not be clear. So, which is it? Did you get the answer to that question or not?
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Nov 25, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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SG-
being right and/or being wrong is just not enough motivation to coerce me to intentionally aid climb up some slab.
whomever gawd is, she spent plenty of her energy creating amazing features to climb, and i don't consider the path of this route to be among them. given that my days on this earth are finite, i'l not be blowing them on WoS when i could be at indian creek or some tropical beach, or even pat and jacks, for that matter...
i really think everyone ought to just let this saga go
(but lastly, in all seriousness, i have to wonder how some people around here could truly believe that their own personal endorsement of this climb or these climbers somehow actually helps out their cause in any way... coughpetecough... yougottabekiddinmepal..)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 25, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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Holy frig, Steve! Are you looking for a belayer for Wings of Steel???!!!!
ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111
I'll be there with f*#kin' BELLS ON, dude, to belay you up Wings of Steel!!! Dude, I'll bring the biggest longest baddest-ass camera lens you've ever seen, and I'll record every millimetric move you make!! It'll be awesome, man! I'll get Kate and her Blackberry, and we'll upload live to McTopo and everyone can watch!!!
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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You'll have your answer next spring on the enhancements unless I find something better to do.
Almost the entire Downward Spiral thread went without a response from you or Mark and quite frankly screw you and your dismissive little statement of petulance. It didn't work on Mimi and won't accomplish anything on this Forum.
I don't really give a rat's ass on a cold day whether you choose to respond to anything that I say or question that I ask. That is entirely up to you, as always.
As Matt duly noted, you guys leave the conversation whenever your position or support for it begins to wane. No different here when you feel that you are on a high note and would like to end the controversy that follows your climbing career around like a nasty fart. Ignoble fate for you but entirely warranted.
Stay away if you can but you guys haven't gained a shred of respect in my eyes as a historian. None of your efforts on El Cap measure up to squat. Back to the shadows with you...
Cheers
Pete- I don't even care to meet you much less climb anything in your company. You missed your chance last season. That was Mimi and I on the Footstool while you carried on about "the last steep thing on El Cap that you hadn't done" once you determined that she was a girl. Dream on...
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
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I've been trying so hard to just watch and enjoy, keep my mouth shut, no commentary. And I will continue to do so...but holy crap! Pete, that was just too hilarious! I literally have tears rolling down my face! That's it, no other comment on any of this or the people involved, I'm gone now. I really wasn't here at all...
Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh!
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Nov 25, 2009 - 09:52pm PT
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lol
re: "Pete- I don't even care to meet you much less climb anything in your company. You missed your chance last season. That was Mimi and I on the Footstool while you carried on about "the last steep thing on El Cap that you hadn't done" once you determined that she was a girl. Dream on..."
yeah that's the climbing experience we all strive for, an antagonist for a belay slave, rooting against you at every second, hoping his fellow evangelical gawd-fearin hook lovers will be redeemed before HIS eyes...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Nov 25, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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" these guys would have quit the route right then and there. "
Which, I would say, is still better than slandering and declaring war on a route and the FAists, without ever having laid eyes on the route.
Sheesh! I can't believe this is still going on. I don't think I've been on the Taco in close to 3 months and it's in EXACTLY the same spot as when I left. Mark and Richard in "defend mode" and Steve talking about sh#t he really has no business talking about and can't possibly, even himself, believe that he can offer any logical insight into. I'd certainly hope he'd at least understand that not only will no one give what he says any credance, but that he actually loses people's respect with this personal vendetta.
It's basically, "I've never been to Africa, but I think it f*#king sucks. It's hot, there are bugs and slimy, poisonous things and big, man-eating critters.... Or so I am told. But, let me tell you, it really sucks ass in Africa, I know!" lol
Get a grip guys. Sheesh!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
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Rest easy, dude. This one won't be around until next season when it springs back to life again....
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Nov 25, 2009 - 11:20pm PT
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That would be about the perfect end to this whole thing, Steve. Good luck! Regardless, I'm sure you'll have a great time on the Captain, no matter what you do. Old friends coming together is always a good thing!
Hope everyone has a great Turkey Day tomorrow. Even you wankers up in Canada.
Back into hiding, err working, err.... :)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2009 - 12:20am PT
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What DRIVES you, SG? You've lied about us for decades, called us names, disrespected us as human beings, obfuscated wildly for years, fought your increasingly losing fight for years.... for what? What is your point? What do you get out of it? What MUST the world know about WoS and about us? In all honesty I have asked. In all honesty I really want to know what drives you to be so resistant to the ever-growing piles of evidence and so hardened in your animosity.
You treat us as bugs that simply must be squashed, but how did you ever get it into your mind that ANY other basically decent human beings should be thought of that way? Are you really as arrogant as you seem on these threads, so unflinchingly self-assured that your view of the world simply MUST be correct... because it is YOUR view?
I'm honestly simply astounded by people like you, and I try to imagine what it would take for you to simply follow the good advice of the recent posts on this thread: let it go. Declare a cease-fire. Quit defaming us. Let us and the route fade into the obscurity you CLAIM is so deserved.
But you won't answer the simplest of questions, so at this point, wearily, I resign myself to the fact that in a day or a week or a month or a year, YOU will be back to asking the same old questions of us, speculating in the same tired old ways, defaming us with the same worn out accusations. Like a skipping record, but we can't find the off switch nor bump you into some other track. At the mere mention of WoS, you....
simply....
must....
drop back into the same track.
It's obviously deeply personal for you, but why?
You treat this whole thing like we STOLE the route from you, when, of course, being the mighty SG, of course, YOU could have done it so much better. The idea that two buffoons from the armpit of the world could come into your Valley, climb on YOUR rock without paying YOU homage and getting the proper permissions, and then actually put up a decent route is just too much to take? What is it? What did we ever do to YOU?
Aren't your own assertions about the "greatness" of your own routes enough for you (like the recent thread about the Real Nose, uhhh... excuse me, the Competitive Edge... wow, what a provocative name!)? Aren't the bows of respect you get from so many others on these threads enough for you?
Or are you NOT a magnanimous ruler but are instead a tyrant? EVERY knee must bow, and while we or WoS enjoy a SHRED of credibility from ANYBODY, that is a threat to your total rule? Are you really so little inside that you must squash every potential threat to that world view in which you (and a few cronies) were/are gods?
See... I can only speculate based upon known psychological theories, but I readily admit that they are pure speculations. I want to know from YOU what the real story is. Why have you dogged us for years and years?
What's the game, SG? What DRIVES you?
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