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jstan
climber
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Feb 26, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
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We need to look at the sand painting thread titled "creativity." These are the people we are labeling as "communists."
During the battle for Stalingrad these people were fighting the German Sixth army with little more than their bare hands at -40F. You notice what was shown in the paintings and the reaction of the audience? The pain was immense and lasts unto this day. They did not choose their economic system. It was forced upon them by a group of people having only one priority. To gain power. Only to gain power. Nothing more.
The German Army had to force Stalingrad so they might obtain needed energy supplies in the Caucasus. Baku for one. Germany needed oil. General Zhukov committed minimal support to the defense of the city because he was amassing thousands of tanks which would drive the Germans back in the spring, the time the Germans assumed they would be able to operate their armoured forces to better advantage.
During the winter the Russian troops and civilians were luring the German tanks out onto the ice by offering the tanks the chance to machine gun them. Leading the tanks into an area where they had weakened the ice was all the Russians had going for them.
We have our own communists here in the US. Our american communists also want only to have power. As a group their aims are not different from those of Lenin and Stalin. Even their methods are eerily similar.
Saying they will do something and then doing the exact opposite.
Lincoln said foreign soldiers will never drink from the Ohio. Our danger then was internal and of our own making.
As it is now.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 26, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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If so Dingus, then these people will lead us to disaster. They also will partake of that disaster.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Feb 26, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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My wife is from Russia, born in Leningrad, moved here from St. Petersburg.
Says that at least in the USSR the people knew that the crap on TV was Propaganda, many in the US don't...Seems like a contributing factor for Blue to consider.
jstan, I am almost done reading a book on Stalingrad and while there were many atrocities inflicted upon both sides, I never read about leading the tanks onto the ice. Not saying it didnt happen, I just never heard about it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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Says that at least in the USSR the people knew that the crap on TV was Propaganda, many in the US don't...Seems like a contributing factor for Blue to consider.
The older Soviet Stalinism isn't the same as the Marxism that people currently aspire for. Of course it usually turns into Stalinism in the end, but they seem to always start with Marxism/Leninism.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Feb 26, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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blue - Not gonna do it...
Your links lead me to what looks like another one of your friends blogs... American thinker.. Are they a right wing think-tank? are they a group of nuts waiting for the black helicopters? Are they all stationed on top of a mountian with a huge weapons stockpile?
I don't know.. but I think it might be useful to reads some of what they have to say in order to determine just where the head is at...
this taken from your friends site:
"Follow my impeccable logic here: While anything can happen between now and the first Tuesday of November, 2012, as the situation exists today (absent a swift and substantial rightward shift by Obama, a dramatic drop in the unemployment rate, the emergence of the Tea Parties as a viable third party, a decision by Obama not to run, or the sudden appearance of a deus ex machina) Barack Obama is a one-term president. If present trends continue, the next president will be a Republican. Mitt Romney, Scott Brown, your Aunt Petunia."
So, it turns out that this is one of those whacky groups I mentioned above... And I don't think that just because a nut, or even a group of nuts, is screaming about the right being right and the left wrong that they have any valid information, but if you chose to get all your information from them.. then that's your decision. Keep it up, you're doing just fine, and everything will turn out just fine for you, your family, and all your friends.
Sorry, couldn't watch the delightful vid you have supplied, as I am being oppressed by my emoployer from viewing from work. But this an be expected, because the republican want to give everything to the corporations so that this world is made a better place for all the right people....
I wish I had a checklist of all the left-wing/liberal blogs so that I can come back like you do ("See, jingy.. it's true 'cause this jackazz says so!) but i don't spend any of my time looking to them to give me perspective on the my world, like others do. I get all my feelings from within, I can make up my own mind about what I see going on around me, unlike others who have to be told by the radio what to like and what to hate.
I strongly suggest you take stock of your own situation, then put that up next to how your situation was yesterday, the month before, and the year or years before to see that.. well, if you are anything like the masses of unemployed, and fearing the worst employed (like me, always seems that I am about a paycheck and a half away from homelessness)... I'd think that you would see the error in your views.
But even still... we can get along, becuase you are still a human, and I know we all have limitations of understanding.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 26, 2010 - 04:00pm PT
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It is a little known fact that the Just In Time Inventory strategy was devised by the Soviets at Stalingrad.
The Nazis and the Commies were duking it out over the huge Red October Tractor Factory. The Nazis occupied half, the Commies the other half. The Russkies were producing T-34 tanks at the factory, rolling them off the assembly line and right into the battle.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Feb 26, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
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My wife [...] says that at least in the USSR the people knew that the crap on TV was Propaganda
That is a very astute perspective.
I remember reading the Lonely Planet guide for Volgograd. There was a sentence along the lines of this:
"Even today, construction excavation routinely exposes mass graves."
Sitting here in peaceful suburbia, It's impossible for me to imagine horror on such an immense scale. It wasn't that long ago either.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
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Jingy, that is what turned up when I googled what you were seekeing. There is a you-tube video under that link also.
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Feb 26, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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Guys,
Blue is here really as a double agent. He's the true communist. He's just trying to recruit people to his cause by trolling these boards and confusing us.
What is that report a communist hot-line phone number again?
I'm going to call it right now.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 26, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
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I'll have to try and find where the ice business was written up. It was associated with an analysis explaining Zhukov's lack of interest in supporting the battle in the city.
When I was working as a civilian for the US Navy they let my boss take a sabbatical at the Lebedev Institute, which I thought was most interesting, and useful. He said the people tended to get down and real the most when they were in their cups. Which makes sense when you factor in the extent to which Stalin had used informants to keep everyone terrified. Say the wrong thing and you found yourself in a gulag the next day. No due process.
As an undergrad I took two semesters of Russian. It is an interesting language and since we were adversaries I thought it would be good to know something more than "they are bad and we are good." Very hard language to speak and with all the other courses I simply had to give up. This was not long after the war. Mrs. Gourevich, the teacher, was extremely interesting. She had a little metal cigarette case she would pull out while lecturing and would carefully extract one cigarette while leaving the case open. She always broke the cigarettes into about one half inch lengths without dropping even one piece of tobacco, putting the second half back into the case. Then she would smoke it between thumb and forefinger because it was too short to hold any other way. Most of the other students were in the USAF hoping to learn enough so they would not be totally helpless if shot down. No way they were going to learn the speech well enough to pass.
And Dr. F, I support your valiant efforts to bring people to the point of discussing. It is an immense task and I am grateful you have taken it on.
Today we are functioning by hyperbole. I am trying to work in a slightly different manner. In hyperbole you put handles on the thought that fit into slots in the people, in the way chemicals gain access to the cell. I avoid that as I don't want to bring into play all the prepared pathways. Kerwin is right I am hopelessly constructionist but as our country descends into greater and greater pain the moment will come when people will realize this is going nowhere and we have to change.
We need to be ready to make the most of that moment when people restart their engines.
They will do that.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Dam, I sooo wanted the "420" post on the Commie-pinko thread:-(
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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Thanks, DMT, but back at you:-)
From who, I don't know...
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:42pm PT
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Was Panama Red a commie?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:46pm PT
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I think the problem is that the U.S. was from the very beginning founded as a social experiment and the definition of what is "American" is ongoing and always subject to revision. The only constant is change. When bluering talks about "our schools", "our family", or "our religion" what in the heck does he mean? Those terms have been changing for over 200 years and just aren't set in concrete yet. Of course, Blue would like to define them and hold onto his definitions forever, but real life just isn't like that.
"All things are a changing
Sage Heraclitus says,
But a tawdry cheapness
Shall outlast our days"
 Ezra Pound
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:48pm PT
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 26, 2010 - 05:52pm PT
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 26, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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(Posted just to burn up this guys bandwidth)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Feb 26, 2010 - 06:47pm PT
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Gary, that photomontage, aside from being provovative, is inaccurate. Missing is Lavrenti Beria, the most powerful.
Could Trotsky, among others there, be defined as being "behind Stalin"?
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