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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 10, 2018 - 10:49am PT
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Why do teachers get paid less than a high school dropout holding a stop/go sign at a road construction project? Yeah, it’s a trick question cause Dems wrote the Davis-Bacon Act.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 10, 2018 - 11:02am PT
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Why do teachers get paid less than a high school dropout holding a stop/go sign at a road construction project?
Is there a reason a guy on a construction site should have to be on food stamps? The idea that we have what's called "the working poor" should be unacceptable.
Debs said it best, to paraphrase: we want the worker to get what he produces and the capitalist to produce what he gets.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 10, 2018 - 11:13am PT
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Uh, $50/hr for holding a sign? Really? Pretty sure Hocking never made that.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 10, 2018 - 12:42pm PT
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Hey, Reilly, any source/data on that $50/hr claim? For sure, there's no way such work deserves that kind of pay. It's a crappy job, for sure, but doesn't take much skill or training. What would be "fair"? Double minimum wage? Maybe extra pay in the middle of summer/middle of winter when conditions REALLY suck? On a bike tour once, we ran into a small crew doing work on a remote road in NE Cali. We chatted with the guy holding the sign, and I commented on the tedium of the job. He said the crew rotated, some working the machinery then taking the sign work in turn. I don't know if this is common, but clearly these guys all did more and had more skills than just slack-jawed sign-holding required.
BAd
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 15, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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Make no mistake, UPS is trying to break the Teamsters. While UPS drivers make good money--$80-120k--they are certainly not treated with much dignity. A lot of this stems from computer-driven efficiencies e.g. minimizing left turns, backups, blah blah blah, beholden to euler circuits in place of a driver who knows and loves his customers. Fresh outta college supervisors who view human capital as nothing more than production quotas are a problem there too.
FedEx is non-union--and with regional non-union carriers expanding and Amazon utilizing non-traditional routes to final, the union is in a very precarious spot. That said, Teamsters still hold the power to decimate UPS and should not let that leverage fade into the night.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 15, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
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80 thou...bull sh#t...
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Sep 16, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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According to https://www.truckdriverssalary.com/ups-driver-salary/:
Seen on the highway, the freight OTR truckers for UPS earn $57,886.40 per year based off of user contributions on Glassdoor and Indeed.com for our 2018 update. That breaks down to $27.83 per hour.
According to the company, this is 34% higher than the national average for most OTR drivers. Our research shows that is not completely accurate as our industry average for 2018 is 66,711. However, for new drivers, this would be a big bump to their 1st year earnings.
Bonuses are not mentioned in this number.
Since the focus of our site is traditional OTR drivers, this is the number we use in our company rankings. But that number doesn’t tell the whole story if you are interested in driving local routes with UPS.
Consistent routes and exceptional pay is what’s offered to UPS drivers. While this data does not account for seasonal drivers, it does account for the full-time employee that gets to work regular shifts and routes
The brown trucks you see are referred to as “package cars.”
These drivers earn, on average, roughly $19.82 an hour.
While this figure comes out to $41,267.20 a year for a 40-hour work week, drivers can expect to work more than 8 hours a day, especially during the peak holiday season. The key to understanding the amount you can earn at UPS is that most drivers work overtime pay with 11 to 12 hour days common.
Overtime pay averages $45 an hour.
With that said, we think it is safe to add 35% to the total earnings ($12,380) for a package delivery driver for grand total of $53,647.36.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 16, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
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Their other favorite line is if you raise minimum wages , businesses will go under...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 16, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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Regarding road construction wages vs teachers’ - a sign holder could easily make $50/hr on a weekend with overtime. As usual you losers just want to split hairs rather than talk substantive issues. On top of that I am basically on yer side but yer too stoopid and to entwined in yer twisted knickers to realize it. The base pay for a gubmint Davis/Bacon road job sign holder is most certainly close to that of a elementary school teacher.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 16, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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As usual you losers just want to split hairs rather than talk substantive issues.
Bingo. As above, I'm on their side e.g. UPS, but they're just too f@#$%&* wound up and dumb to read or understand.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 16, 2018 - 04:21pm PT
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I agree...xcon is a total looser....
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Sep 16, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Guys, your situation down there is not that bad.
I do not understand why people are talking about teachers' salaries without specifying a state.
Some states pay better and some states pay worse salaries.
Bad Climber:
Here's an article with a VERY lively comment stream on teacher pay. The graphs are a little misleading, and a lot is based on "averages," which mislead as well. Anyway, worth a read if you're into this stuff.
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/no-public-school-teachers-are-not-underpaid These graphs are definitely BS because they are "annualized" and "adjusted".
However I do not see anything wrong with using averages.
Averages can also tell a story like in my neck of the woods:
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/allan-richarz-ontarios-teachers-are-overpaid
"Toronto tells a similar tale, with secondary school teacher salaries averaging $87,000, followed closely by their elementary counterparts at $82,000. Add in benefits and the numbers clock in at a hair under $100,000 annually. For comparison, the median family income in Ontario is $75,000."
Salary (including benefits) is decent, but it depends only on their seniority and doesn't depend on their skills and efforts.
Bad teachers and good teachers with the same seniority are getting exactly the same salary.
There is no incentive for a teacher to work better and quite a few of them put just minimal efforts.
Moreover, parents typically can't chose a school for their children.
In this case we have a rigid government monopoly with unionized employees.
There is almost no feedback and very limited opportunity to make it better.
Salaries per se are not important. They would not make teachers better . Salaries should be supplemented by real feedback loops.
Down there you started implementing these feedback loops (charter schools, school vouchers etc.) and you have a good chance that your school system will be fixed.
However in my province quality of school education was deteriorating lately (and this quality decrease was even officially acknowledged by a provincial government) and all attempts to improve it by implementing feedback loops were broken by trade unions opposition and mass opposition by Liberal politicians.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Sep 16, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
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xCon, do you know what was attempted and failed here?
Based on your comnents I think not.
Getting rid of bad teachers and bad headmasters while promoting good teachers and good headmasters is an orthogonal dimension.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 16, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
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Private-sector unions - good (generally)
Public-sector unions - bad (always)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 19, 2018 - 06:44am PT
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After 6 hrs. the production slows down unless you're doing meth , in which case you're always at the dentist
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 19, 2018 - 07:56am PT
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Regarding road construction wages vs teachers’ - a sign holder could easily make $50/hr on a weekend with overtime.
What's wrong with OT pay?
While it might not be a four letter word, the term "working poor" is an obscenity.
It seems that in this country that the harder you work the less you get paid.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 19, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS NOT MEANT TO BE A 'LIVING WAGE'! GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!
Of course not. If workers aren't paid enough to feed themselves, eventually enough will die to have a labor shortage and the resulting competition for the remaining workers will cause wages to go up.
Win-win for everybody who counts. Who worries about the peons. They don't count, as long as they don't get uppity and have a communist revolution...
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Sep 27, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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" "We do not believe unions are in the best interest of our customers, our shareholders, or most importantly, our associates. Our business model is built upon speed, innovation, and customer obsession -- things that are generally not associated with union. When we lose sight of those critical focus areas we jeopardize everyone's job security: yours, mine, and the associates.' "
If unions were innovative and agile they would have more than 6% penetration in the private sector today. Dude is right.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 27, 2018 - 10:00pm PT
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The only workers getting the 6 inch penetration are the non-union workers...
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