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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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As I see it, the biggest hurdle to passing significant gun laws is guaranteeing the NRA and gun owners that those laws/changes are not merely the first steps in an effort to take away all guns.
Changes I would support include background checks on all purchases, even between family members... register all guns.... and ban semi-automatic weapons.
Changes I might support include licensing for gun ownership and requiring guns to be safely stored.
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Norton
Social climber
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The biggest hurdle to passing Mr Thompson's very well suggested legislation is to replace Republicans with Democrats in congress, Fact.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Thanks for the acknowledgements.
I believe these changes could occur if the new laws assured the NRA et. al. that they were long term... that they weren't just the first step towards taking all guns.
The NRA's inflexible positions are absurd. I'd guess most gun owners don't fully support their hard-line stances. Looking at the anti-tobacco gains from the 70s to the 90s, it's understandable why the NRA won't budge. Slippery slope and all.
To those who think my changes are reasonable, would you agree to grandfathering these changes, so that gun owners would not face further regulations, for the guns they own at the time these changes are enacted?
Or at least guarantee no additional requirements for a set period, like 20 years.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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To those who think my changes are reasonable, would you agree to grandfathering these changes, so that gun owners would not face further regulations, for the guns they own at the time these changes are enacted?
Or at least guarantee no additional requirements for a set period, like 20 years.
Yup, although my only semi's are an 1100 and a mini-14, neither of which I need anymore. I have a bolt action rifle(.270) that is a better round for large animals if I get the itch and I prefer my double-barrel any day over a heavy 1100. I understand I am biased and don't view them as artillery as some might in this country, I am aware my stance is fairly 'easy' for me to take. The guarantee might be a hella high hurdle for some to make. BTW, good idea, it is one of the cleaner/simpler shots I have read/heard.
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dirtbag
climber
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Edward, I'm not sure the grandfathering proposal would work.
Knowing which guns would be grandfathered would require an initial registering and tracking system similar to what you propose.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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register all guns.... and ban semi-automatic weapons.
See, the problem is NOT that "gun nuts" (like me, apparently) are not willing to be flexible. I could support any number of additional gun-control laws, useless though they be. The problem is that you are not careful in your verbiage.
For example, you could not POSSIBLY have actually meant "semi-automatic weapons," as almost ALL handguns today are semi-auto. So, you CANNOT actually think that a BAN on almost all handguns is a "reasonable" approach to "gun control," as it is not reasonable to think that you are going to get a BAN on almost all handguns!
What I think you meant was "automatic weapons." And I could be brought to support such a ban as a compromise position, even though I don't AGREE with it. But when you are sloppy with verbiage, you make what is already a highly contentious subject almost intractable!
And you guys are NEVER going to get "registration" passed. Period. So, just give that up in favor of other things that might actually get passed. I would guesstimate that less than 1% of gun-owners would favor a registration system. We DO fear governmental confiscation, and we will NOT submit to telling the feds about our guns. That is a STATE-level matter, and we can vote with our money and our feet at the State level. So, please, just give up on the idea of some sort of national gun registry. Ain't gonna happen, and can't in principle be enforced.
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Gary
Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
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So, you CANNOT actually think that a BAN on almost all handguns is a "reasonable" approach to "gun control," as it is not reasonable to think that you are going to get a BAN on almost all handguns!
I think that would be a very reasonable approach to gun control. Until the time we can beat them all into plowshares.
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John M
climber
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ban all semi automatic rifles.
Or at the very least design them to only fit a 3 round magazine. And make it a major major crime to own/sell/trade larger magazines.
I'm not as concerned about handguns as it takes a lot more training to be effective with one against many.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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More people are murdered with bare hands than by semi auto rifles every year.
Of course the symbolism of banning something scary looking is more important than reality.
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John M
climber
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TGT.. you are one tiresome human being..
I'm trying to help put a stop to mass shootings. Semi auto rifles with large magazines are one of the easiest weapons to acquire and use for that purpose.
I'm not afraid of them. I recognize their power. There are very very few cases where a hunter should need more then 3 shots. If he/she does, then perhaps that person shouldn't be hunting. In the days of the indian tribes, a hunter was prized for not wasting an arrow, which took a special skill to make and extra work. So poor hunters couldn't sometimes even trade with the good arrow makers, because the arrow maker wanted to be paid with meat. Not with.. sorry, I missed. But hey.. just spray them down, that should work. In q-balls case, he could get a permit or a licensed exterminator could come out.
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John M
climber
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The problem with gun control is most people don't want the truth, they just want their opinion.
this is your pet opinion.
I love the truth, but human lives are more then just statistics. What you are telling the parents of the kids in Oregon is that you don't want change because their kids aren't a valuable enough statistic. I love my guns more then your kids is what you say by your actions.
edit:
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Of course the symbolism of banning something scary looking is more important than reality.
The problem with gun control is most people don't want the truth, they just want their opinion.
Both of the above quotes are insults meant to belittle a persons opinion so that they don't have to face what is being said.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Never is such a ridiculous contention...
Well, it IS impossible to prove a negative existential claim, so, technically, you are correct.
But the death toll would have to be astoundingly high, higher than I think you realize, to get something like that seriously on the table. Furthermore, there is zero established causal connection between "unregistered" guns and gun-related homicides. So, you'd also have to ESTABLISH that connection first. Good luck with that.
So, I'll again assert: Never.
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Norton
Social climber
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Here's a poll showing 43% of gun owners favor a national gun registry.
damn! that is a far larger number than I would have assumed
thanks for posting that fact, Mr. Thompson
The problem with gun control is most people don't want the truth, they just want their opinion.
agree
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philo
climber
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History is rife and resplendent with Nevers that never lasted. If the sh#t really hits the fan are you and your pop guns going to stand down an Abrams, an Apache or a Warthog? How realistic is that? The transition away from a gun crazed culture need not be violent.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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damn! that is a far larger number than I would have assumed
AGREED!
I stand corrected. Well, at least by one, single poll.
Law or no law, I'll never register my guns. There's a "never" I actually have control over. ;-)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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you and your pop guns going to stand down an Abrams, an Apache or a Warthog?
It's never worked that way. Guerrilla warfare (which is often extremely effective) has never been about the sort of confrontations you perpetually (and falsely) throw out.
If even a tenth of our population seriously decided to start engaging in modern resistance warfare, you're looking at a convulsion in this nation that would make the civil war look lame and tame by comparison. And, having talked to many active-duty military people, my best guess is that you would not get the military support for the liberal policies that you think you would.
These military people are not stupid, nor are they mindless grunts that will just fire on Americans because they are ordered to.
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John M
climber
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"this is your pet opinion."
I have provided numerous references so anyone can read for themselves what I am quoting and how I draw my "Opinions".
The problem with gun control is most people don't want the truth, they just want their opinion.
This is the statement that I was calling your pet opinion. I quoted it, thats what I was referring to.
Edit.. I stated earlier I am interested in slowing down mass murder. I have no idea how to stop individuals from murdering each other, at least one that most people could understand. So the only thing that I can work on is trying to slow down mass shootings of kids by kids. Limiting their access to such weapons seems reasonable to me.
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Norton
Social climber
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Law or no law, I'll never register my guns. There's a "never" I actually have control over. ;-)
no one cares what you think other than you
I have a Concealed Carry Permit, carry 24/7, if the people that Americans elect to represent them them in the Senate, House, and Presidency pass a registration law I would respect it
and register my guns, I have absolutely nothing to fear by doing so, and I assume right now that it would take one hell of a compelling narrative backed by reputable studies to convince congress to pass such a law, very unlikely
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