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John M
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
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If we could remove the hyperbole, and the personal attacks, I do feel some level of empathy for this man. It appears to me that he lost his grazing rights because the desert tortoise was labeled an endangered species. I do not know if other grazing areas were offered to him. It would be interesting to know. So rather then give in, he decided to embark on a path of not paying any grazing fees and he defended this by saying it was ancestral lands and he tried to use the homestead act. He failed in his defense in court, including before a judge who is mormon and was appointed by Ronald Reagan, so it is unlikely that there was liberal bias on the part of the court.
The man was facing something very difficult and he fought. Was he right to fight? I don't know. I don't know enough about the desert tortoise to decide that. I also don't know if he was offered other lands to graze his cattle on.
I do believe that the feds were within their rights. It is federal land. Should they have done this? I don't know.
On a similar note, I also feel empathy for those who lost their businesses because of the recent recession, a recession which I believe was brought about by corrupt bankers and corrupt politicians who do not have the peoples best interest at heart.
But how many militia men went to bat for those people? And how many made fun of the Occupy movement, including the Chief, for trying to fight against large aggressive power. Are they so different? I don't think so.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
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Good info HighTraverse. I suspect Bundy will be arrested in the near future and liens will be placed against his assets to pay his overdue fines. I doubt the Supreme Court will have to get involved in this.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
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No. It's settled. He's SOL. It's been litigated for 20 years. He lost. End of story.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
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Hell tradman, rental cars make some of the best performing off road vehicles. It is truly remarkable where you can get those things to go.
And you probably went in the short way!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
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Thanks again Chief.
This is an interesting document about Nevada's Open Range law, not written by attorneys and therefore pretty easy reading. Nevada's Open Range law covers OBLIGATIONS of grazing animal owners and their neighbors.
It ONLY applies to Open Range.
See page 1 for the salient statement.
Clark County has only one remaining BLM allotment and all open range grazing has been, in effect, eliminated. Open Range Defined
In 1893, Nevada law “exempted owners of “livestock running at large on the ranges or commons from civil liability for trespass pursuant to NRS 568.300”
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Open Range is defined by
Nevada Statute in NRS 568.355 as used in
NRS 568.360 and 568.370 as “all unenclosed
land outside of cities and towns upon which
cattle, sheep or other domestic animals by
custom, license, lease or permit are grazed or permitted to roam” the Federal Courts have revoked Bundy's "lease or permit" to use Federal Land (see Supremacy Clause)
End of story.
John M
well said
and now
I'm OUTTA HERE!
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John M
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
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To equate the Fed Gov't to a private entity such as Wallstreet just shows how naive many are in this nation.
It would be naive to fail to understand the power and influence Wallstreet has over our government, our economy and our money supply.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
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John M that was good man thanks
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
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THE cattle are still grazing on federal land
bottom line: those cattle will be sold and the proceeds paid to the BLM for back fees
and no way 600 cows are worth the one million dollars he owes
he is SOL, and he brought it on himself, by refusing to pay grazing fees, how dumb?
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
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Yup if only I could communicate in such a eloquent manner as John M apposed to abrasive and ineffective manner I mostly do. Actually most all of us could only hope for so much.
John M my hats off to you as the voice of reason logic and pride..
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Has anyone read the court decisions, briefs? There is way too much missing information to be making judgments here.
I tend to root for individuals vs. big government, but I root against the "pry my gun from my cold dead hands" crowd that rides along the coattails of real individuals.
“Look...Reality is greater than the sum of its parts, also a damn sight holier. And the lives of such stuff as dreams are made of may be rounded with a sleep but they are not tied neatly with a red bow. Truth doesn't run on time like a commuter train, though time may run on truth. And the Scenes Gone By and the Scenes to Come flow blending together in the sea-green deep while Now spreads in circles on the surface. So don't sweat it. For focus simply move a few inches back or forward. And once more...look.”
Ken Kesey
Sometimes A Great Notion
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
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Has anyone read the court decisions, briefs? I've read the latest court decision, July 2013.
I linked to it midway up the previous page.
I'm surprised no enterprising states rights attorney hasn't taken Bundy's case to appeals court. Perhaps there isn't one stupid enough to do it pro bono and Bundy hasn't got the scratch to hire his own?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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who in fact "eliminated" it from that county Supremacy Clause
Article 6 Section 2 of the Constitution.
And the fact that it's been Federal land since the US acquired the land from Mexico.
So Chief, there are a lot of Tacoheads who agree with you. You could all rouse up the "militia" men and women to each pitch in a few $$ and hire an attorney on Bundy's behalf?
Or is loading up an AR15 and posing for the press more exciting?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
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The proposal includes setting aside $3 million for legal defense. BINGO.
And it ain't gonna win. Shurtleff is just trolling for votes. (My Father knew him at law school and didn't think much of him)
In May 2013, the media reported on a secret recording in which Mark Shurtleff was heard offering a businessman, Darl McBride, $2 million if he dropped his ongoing battle with another prominent businessman, Mark Robbins. McBride recorded the conversation and turned it over to federal agents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shurtleff
He didn't even do well in the Utah Supreme Court
As Attorney General, Shurtleff sided with school voucher proponents when he issued an official legal opinion stating that under a second law (HB174), private school vouchers would still be funded even if voters rejected the primary voucher bill (HB 148) in a November referendum.[5] On June 8, 2007, it took the Utah Supreme Court only hours to rule unanimously that the second law (HB 174) would also be nullified if voters reject the primary voucher bill.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
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Questions:
Why 14 children?
Is the chief a native american?
Does anybody care about this outside of Fox viewers?
Why are there so many right wingnut climbers?
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
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15 minutes is over. Nobody cares. Crazies showed up, traitor got his cattle. Rest of the story will take place out of Hannity's show. Court.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 13, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
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The militia wackos have their poster boy for a few weeks or maybe even months.
The Feds have waited 20 years for their money, they can wait a bit longer.
When things have cooled down and the wackos have found another stooge the Treasury Dept will issue an arrest warrant. Bundy will eventually be arrested and away he goes. Just like Warren Jeffs and Al Capone.
And if any of his progeny think they'll get the land he actually owns, they'll be very disappointed. They'll only get what's left after it's sold by the Feds. Which after $1million I'm sure won't be much.
Again I ask, why hasn't an attorney taken up Bundy's case pro bono in the last 20 years? A great way to make a name for himself. One way or the other.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:00pm PT
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High Trav
^That's what I was thinking, though not in as much detail.
Thanks for the link to the ruling. I'll read it. I'm wondering if anyone alse will or is it better to just let Hannity boil it down to a more palatable form.
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John M
climber
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
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I read the link. thanks High Traverse. to me it shows that he was depending on his belief that the land isn't controlled by the feds. Seems like a poor argument.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 13, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
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In summation...a Mormon prick who doesn't recognize the US governments authority let's his frickin herd run rampant on public land, my land, your land, and refuses to pay the $ he owes. The BLM tries to get rid of the offending beasts and wacko right wing terrorists, turning off Duck Dynasty, grab their camo's & AR's & show up prepared for war. To prevent bloodshed, the feds retreat. The wingnut extremists, aided by their friends in the extremist media, declare victory.
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