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Osprey
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 05:55pm PT
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Something special was just ripped out of me. This group sure is exciting though.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jun 22, 2014 - 06:11pm PT
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Making up excuses for us folding at the last moment and missing easy opportunities is not helpful. Champions recognize key moments in any contest, and rise to the occassion. We choked. Not only gave the ball away at the most crrucial point in the game, but blew a cover. The whole American ideal of crushing the opponent, while overblown, was sorely lacking in this pervformance. We settle for these results only if our expectations are low. I expect us to win the group and advance. We have ten times the talent pool as most of those other nations and our youth soccer programs have been strong for goign on twenty years. No excuses. Time to step it up.
Spouting off about something you know nothing about isn't all that helpful either. Portugal is the fourth ranked team in the World, a position we have never come close to (well, ok. We were fourth for three months after coming in second in the confederations cup.) . They also have the player who was voted best in the world this year, above even Leo Messi. He's had the award before and was runner up several times. Today he showed why and we still tied. Portugal choked a couple times themselves. The betting line says their chances of getting out of group are now 5%. They need to make up 5 goals even if we lose to Germany. Ghana's chances are better.
A tie with them was huge ( a win, which we almost pulled off would have been better)
It has nothing to do with low expectation. It has to do with realistic expectation. We gained a point and are still in the hunt, which is better than the reigning champion managed, and better than England managed. We still have a better chance of getting out of group than Portugal. We control our fate. They don't. With that tie, we are still second in the group with realistic chances to get out of it.
Nobody Said it wouldn't be at least semi tough.
How many sports championships did you win between valley drug fests that you know so much about being a champion?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jun 22, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
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@ESPNStatsInfo: Updated Soccer Power Index odds to advance from Group G: Germany 99.7%, #USMNT 76%, Ghana 19%, Portugal 5%.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 22, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
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Got to hold the ball better and not give it up at mid-field. Wish they could have held on a little longer
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 22, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
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Spouting off about something you know nothing about isn't all that helpful either.
Where do you get your information, lorenzo? I opted out of playing pro baseball to go climbing. Competative sports all operate on the same principals. My comments are reflected directly by the commentary on EESPN so take up your beef with them about "know nothing."
Regardles of what the numbers say, I felt we were overall the better team out there today save for some inexperienced fumbling and tragic choking at the crucial moments. My realistic expectations are when a World Cup starter has basically an eight foot shot at an open net, you burry it. Or in the last 30 seconds of a 90 minute game, in stoppage time, your DO NOT give the ball away and defenders glue themselves to anyone near the goal. One, even two of these fatal errors are probably acceptable. But all there amount to a disaster of our own making.
Of coure we are making progress in World Cup play, which is a wonderful thing. But like th man just said, "something great was just ripped out of me" with that loss. We had it, and gve it away.
So it goes in sports sometimes.
JL
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 22, 2014 - 08:08pm PT
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How many sports championships did you win between valley drug fests that you know so much about being a champion?
Lorenzo, cool down. Soak your head in a bucket of ice and gaterade. That will make you feel like a champion. Largo is a legend, one or two steps up from a champion.
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 22, 2014 - 08:08pm PT
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Don't disagree with much of anything Largo wrote above except this:
We have ten times the talent pool as most of those other nations and our youth soccer programs have been strong for going on twenty years. No excuses. Time to step it up.
In numbers of kids playing youth soccer, yeah maybe 10 times the number many nations draw from, but in terms of soccer talent to draw from (and not simply number of youth playing the game) we're still way behind. Gaining some, no doubt, and I think this World Cup will help a lot because it's easily the most-watched in history by Americans, more importantly by American kids. But, it's still all too true that our best athletes don't choose soccer, they just don't, and until that changes we will never have the talent pool to draw from that the top dozen countries have. All you really need to do is watch some kids pick-up games in the odd park or vacant lot most anywhere in Europe or Latin America and compare it to pick-up games in the U.S.--if you can find any here. I've coached youth soccer for a decade, and at least where I'm from (San Diego) tens of thousands of kids play in organized leagues but you almost never see a pick-up game anywhere, you just don't. Our kids suffer from too much organized league sport and not enough playing for the sheer joy of it, in my opinion.
And the same is obviously true in baseball. When I was a kid I played every year of Little League and a year of Pony League (I sucked but that's beside the point) but that amounted to only a tenth or less of the baseball I played. We (meaning the whole damn country, not just my neighborhood) used to play most of our baseball in the streets, vacant lots, etc., with anything we could get our hands on for a ball and bat. You don't see that at all anymore, relative to how it used to be, which is also why we don't produce anywhere near as many great baseball players as we used to.
Edit: Where did Klinsman go looking for new blood? Not here. He went looking for young players with U.S. or dual citizenship who grew up playing soccer in Germany or elsewhere outside the U.S.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jun 22, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
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Lorenzo, cool down. Soak your head in a bucket of ice and gaterade. That will make you feel like a champion. Largo is a legend, one or two steps up from a champion.
He knows about as much about soccer as he does about string theory. He ought to stick to the topic he is a legend for.
Spouting off about being a champion soccer team .. Not so much.
Show some respect for athletes in other fields.
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overwatch
climber
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Jun 22, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
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You didn't really answer his question, Lorenzo, from where does your expertise come?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 22, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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Lorenzo, futbol isn't physics and you don't have to have played in the World Cup to see what happened.
That's part of the beauty of the game and why a degree from Cal Tech isn't required to play it,
luckily for the likes of Wayne Rooney and Christian Ronaldo. I would have thought you knew
that but maybe your being a physicist has made you inclined to overcomplicate things in
addition to revel in sanctimonious condescension.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
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I agree with Largo. They choked. Good game though. Very happy that they did not play like they did against Ghana. I would be sorely tempted to bench Bradly but we really do not have a suitable replacement. I watched the play several times and Beasley was marking him a bit loose but staying with him. I do not think he thought there was space, but Ronaldo has shown many times he only needs an inch. That was a remarkable cross (and header).
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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Jun 22, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
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Okay, there's another thing I disagree with Largo about, Bradley may have missed a pretty easy shot but it happens to 'em all, and he was pretty solid in midfield and--at the very least--certainly not deserving of being benched. Benched for who? We'd be weaker if we did.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
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How many sports championships did you win between valley drug fests that you know so much about being a champion?
*Mother Earth
*Astroman
*First, Nose In A Day
Pretty much championship level stuff. And you Lorenzo, have you won many sport championships that qualify you to be a futbol expert?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jun 22, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
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Jun 22, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
You didn't really answer his question, Lorenzo, from where does your expertise come?
Fair enough. I was born in Argentina and played there when I was young. When my family moved here I played Soccer and Lacrosse. Didn't win a championship in soccer, but won a couple in Lacrosse and was asked to be an assistant coach in both for a couple years (there was little money in it). I have refereed both sports. I'll bet I've watched a lot more top level soccer than Largo has done climbs...easy.
Not exactly as exalted as turning down an A ball contract, but when it comes to competitive team sports, I think I have him beat, especially when it comes to soccer expertise.
My expertise extends to knowing that the fellow who made the world class play is named Ronaldo, not Renaldo as Largo asserts. There is a Brasilian named Reynaldo dos Santos Silva who plays in Azerbaijan and a couple central and South Americans, but I'm pretty sure none plays for Portugal.
And it extends to knowing that the idea that we have a talent pool to match the best in the world would be funny if it weren't so pitifully sad. We can't even match Uruguay there. They are working with a population of 3.4 million and can top us with their B league in their talent pool.
And if he wants to quote ESPN pundits I can show you a game Lalas played against Brasil and Romario where he made Keller famous with his matador impersonation.
Here's what another pundit said about the state of ussoccer development. I think it was right after we got knocked out by Ghana. It was four years ago, but to tell the truth not much has changed except we finally beat Ghana and the World Cup doesn't look to be coming here in 2022.
You should watch all of it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
He's spot on with all of it, except maybe that he came from the lower class. His dad owned a bakery. We are still a generation away from when we could EXPECT ( realistically) to win anything. Right now just competing and trying to forge an identity is plenty.
And ussoccer still hired him. If they didn't believe him they shouldn't have.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 23, 2014 - 02:52am PT
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I agree with John, we choked, and I also agree that Lorenzo comes across as a know-it-all (no offence Lorenzo). Sort of the annoying kind. My former coach from Argentina, Jorge, would probably agree that the US choked.
Okay I tried but the best I could do is play semi-pro in England, Ireland and France… and California Golden Gate Gales, at university, SF Celtic, Concordia. etc. I know the game fairly well, but there is a lot more I can/could have learned.
EDIT
Lorenzo I have to say, and I do not want to get into a "firefight" with you, reading the above post of yours, you come across as very arrogant. You probably are not, it is easy to misconstrue things on the internet.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 23, 2014 - 03:47am PT
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Damn it Lorenzo we all misspell things. Typos creep in. Giving out to John for mispelling the name of that talented but spoiled Ronaldo, you write ussoccer, in my view that should be US Soccer.
Keep your knickers on and do not let them get into a twist. I am sure you are very knowledgable about football, but you are sort of coming across as an ass. Tone it down. We do not want any firefights.
Largo (John) has achieved more as a climber than you probably ever did in Lacross or football. That is an assumption on my part, but I would bet my left… uhhh, well I would just bet, and I am not a betting man. Perhaps I am wrong. ;-)
EDIT
He wasn't without his controversies.
And we know that you are the perfect ref. You are getting up my nose, if you are a troll, you are doing a good job pushing my buttons. Sadly. And I am failing in ignoring your ignorance.
I think I have him beat, especially when it comes to soccer expertise.
I did not know that this thread on the subject was about who had a bigger… or that there was a competition. Quit while you are, ahead.
John could out climb you anyday and the way he rides a unicycle probably play better footie than you.
I know he can stick up for himself without my input, but you come across as the sort of person I prefer not to meet. I do not usually get into flaming but you are…
… what do you think you are?
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Jun 23, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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Bradley sure has struggled this Cup. Was next to useless against Ghana, had a "good" 20-30 minutes against Portugal but was BRUTAL in the 2nd half. The final play was just sickening - all he needed to do was HOLD THE BALL. He had 2, maybe three teammates within 10 yards for support but chose to be cute & beat his man....steal, ball to Ronaldo, BURIED just like that. The lack of effort AFTER he coughed it up was horrible. True, Beasley was somewhat off his man but that ball from Ronaldo was PERFECT, the mf'er....
Bradley also showed questionable judgement against Ghana when he opted to cross the ball rather than hold it deep in the corner & run clock...
It seems like the simplest touches are beyond him right now, and the quickest way to get the ball to the opponent is to lay it off to Bradley...happened over & over vs. Portugal, he deserved the call-out from Wynalda.
That said, USA's resilience is impressive.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Jun 23, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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In defense of Bradley he plays much better when he has a true holding or creative type to play with. The one thing I had been waiting for about 3 years for was to see Bradly, Donovan and Dempsey all on the field at the same time. Bradley seems to always look really good when Donovan is there because he can hold the ball and slow the game a bit. Donovan is about the only player we have with that ability at the international level. The current USMNT team seems to play much more up and down the field and less side to side in that it seems very attack oriented and less build and distribute. Bradly may not look good but he is very active and we do not have a good replacement.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 23, 2014 - 10:46am PT
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Hey, I don't mean to get in a pissing match with Lorenzo about sports. But it's not like I didn't grow up around Futbol. I also spent almost 30 years coming and going from Venezuela - not a soccer powerhouse, but it is played by everyone there. Ronaldo - proper spelling - is who I was talking about. To his credit, what Lorenzo says about US soccer is largely correct per quality of play. But I feel it is high time that changes.
By 'talent pool" I mean physical bodies. We have a far greater population, and the odds are stacked that we should have as many if not more great players that a nation of a tenth the size. Granted, our youth programs are not as good as the best Euro or So American teams, but I take it for granted that Americans can find a way to win. We always have. Gringo ingenuity and resolve. Not in some rube, Rambo way, but in the way of a champion. A bar-setter. Why settle for less? I hae always found that results issue from expectations.
And as mentioned, everybody makes mistakes, but it was unfortunate that we made the ones we made because while flubbing a goal is unavoidable - everyone does do this - giving the ball away with 30 seconds left and missing a cover ARE avoidable mistakes. Freaking kick the ball out of bounds. Foul the guy out of the box. ANYTHING but let them have a header with 5 seconds left.
Que barrrrrrrrrrbaro pues.
JL
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2014 - 11:33am PT
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Largo, we might have the numbers, but soccer isn't even close to a top sport in our country. Football (the fake one), Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, and Nascar are all above Soccer in terms of popularity. I mean when the World Cup started, I saw Golf highlights before the Cup highlights. Any other country Football or Futbol is the sport kids want to play.
The U.S. played a great game and I was shocked to see that last goal go in. It's easy to point fingers, but I didn't see it as a choke. They were tired on defense in the heat and humidity,which resulted in a lazy goal on U.S. part and a perfect one on Portugal's side.
Mynameismud, Donovan our only International ability player? LOL is about my only response to that.
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