Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 01:52am PT
|
Exactly Bruce. He did good for cancer and used enhancing drugs. The question we don't exactly know is if any top cyclist DIDN'T use drugs.
Cause if they all did, it's really not about Lance but the whole friggin sport eh?
Peace
Karl
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:06am PT
|
Riley wrote:
maybe his leaving his wife and kids was my first hint
I don't know Lance Armstrong, so don't know if he is an a-hole or not.
I do however know a lot of good people who went through crappy divorces, both with and without kids.
You just don't know the intimate details of a couple's life, and unless there were extreme circumstances (abuse, drugs, scientology, etc.) you just can't judge.
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:09am PT
|
Nice post, Bruce.
I'll add (though it has already been written) that if this investigation to impugn Lance Armstrong does not have the overall goal of punishing all those who used performance enhancing drugs during Lance's career and to clean up cycling as a whole, then all this is only a witch hunt, plain and simple.
Now that the other guys are coming forward, what are they doing at the lower echelons of cycling to clean up the sport?
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:38am PT
|
Riley wrote:
. I do however know a lot of good people who went through crappy divorces, both with and without kids.
Actually we do know the details - his personal assistant at the time, obviously just another deranged LA hater, writes a very honest account.
Ok, I sit corrected, you're an expert on Lance's relationship with his ex-wife and kids after reading a third-person account.
If you're okay with it, may I have your permission not to pass judgment on this aspect of Lance's life?
We're all saints and sinners at some point, when it comes to the intimate details of a divorce, only the couple knows everything and it's really none of our business.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 09:17am PT
|
The way and manner that he replied to Paul Kimmage (Irish cyclist and journalist), for me, does install the sense that Armstrong is indeed a bully. But a lot of 'celebs' are.
I agree with Karl, his work for cancer victims/research is to be admired, but the guy cheated as a cyclist, end of story (for me at least).
I will admire him on one level, but not on any other. And so what if the others cheated, did Armstrong really want to be the star and 'sports hero'? That he would go to lengths of doping. He was found out, and we will know more about that in the future.
Good for you Lance for your cancer foundation, boo to you for being a cheat ("but the others did it", I can hear him finally saying one day, if he is ever ashamed enough to admit it).
Have I ever achieved what he has? Nope, but I only did recreational drugs in the late 1960s- early 1980s, and they never helped me to be a better climber.
Didn't help me as a cycllist, didn't really help me at all. Thank gawd I never went for the needle, like one of my heroes (fictional) Sherlock Holmes.
"The needle to the last, eh, Holmes?" said Professor Moriarty. (Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon, 1943).
Off topic, Basil Rathbone was the best at playing SH, IMO. Though I don't particlucarly like the way the directors had Nigel Bruce play Dr Watson, beinng a buffoon at times.
Oh, back on topic, Armstrong who? Neil, the polite and real American hero? Or my (one of them) anatomy and physiology professor, Lee Armstrong ("I would die happy know that I had one original thought")?
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 11:09am PT
|
Fair enough, Chief, but then by your definition no cyclist, current or past, has "balls", has character or has "manned up".
All those coming forward have proclaimed their innocence until forced to admit guilt.
I’ll ask the question again, why do you single out Lance instead of calling out all cyclists and all professional cycling organizations?
They’re all dirty to some extent or another, whether actively or passively.
I’ll also write it again, we’re all saints and we’re all sinners. I’ve witnessed in my short lifetime supposed cowards act as heroes, and people you could supposedly count on stab others in the back like nobody’s business.
It ain’t all black and white.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 11:26am PT
|
Theory is if you get Lance and since he's guilty especially if all his own guys are outing him.
He's the top dog who according to all his team mates has been lying all these years and strong arming people to cover himself to boot.
He also used that position and his fame to make a lot of money.
In order to clean up something you need to get the real dirt first.
I think this is how the Chief sees it.
You guys just love to to make arguments and go after people yourselves here.
Anyways this is just my useless opinion.
Get a life people and focus on the subject matter and it's NOT about the "Chief" .....
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 11:35am PT
|
I say send in seal team six and put one in his head...!
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 11:43am PT
|
Coz, Riley is a great guy but he ain't me, and for that he should be very happy. ;-)
I happen to agree with you.
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 11:57am PT
|
OK, I will consider Lance a hero still if he comes completely clean, apologizes to all the kids who look up to him, AND gives all his ill-gotten earnings from over the years to his cancer institute. I hear they are looking for a bike mechanic at the local REI. He can start a local youth cycling league oh, and say 1000 Hail Marys.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
|
What is starting to emerge is LA as a man who is cynical beyond measure. There are people in this world who admire such a personality.
|
|
Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
|
So will they strip Eddy Merckx of his titles, too? It seems they have more evidence against The Cannibal than they do Armstrong.
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
|
Lance Armstrong is smart, but not smart enough.
If he'd really been thinking, he'd have renounced his U.S. citizenship (like the Facebook guy) and "based" himself (ha) in the Cayman Islands. Lots of benefits from that strategy.
Whoops, well maybe not the Caymans
Police in the Cayman Islands rigorously enforce laws against illegal drugs. U.S. citizens should avoid buying, selling, holding or taking illegal drugs under any ...
But then, maybe not, doesn't say what they do about non-U.S. citizens.
|
|
hb81
climber
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
|
BTW: They have NO evidence on EM. They had no doping controls/restrictions during his tenure. None. At least EM had the balls to come out and confess his usage.
Thats just flat out wrong. They started testing mid 60s.
|
|
nick d
Trad climber
nm
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
|
When I think about him, I think about him getting his first wife to artificially conceive, a process she was un-enthusiastic about. Then when the house is filled with crying babies he tells her that he can't train with all the distraction, dumps her and the kids. Of course, she didn't get much financially.
That's how important "family" is to the guy. Nothing matters more than winning, definately not his wife(s) and kids.
He's a bad guy, at least according to a couple of the "ex's".
|
|
Dolomite
climber
Anchorage
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
|
If there were no rules, or no consequences (whichever) in Eddie's day, then it took no balls to admit to anything.
|
|
Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
|
So will they strip Eddy Merckx of his titles, too? It seems they have more evidence against The Cannibal than they do Armstrong.
Really?
Got a ref.
BTW: They have NO evidence on EM. They had no doping controls/restrictions during his tenure. None. At least EM had the balls to come out and confess his usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Merckx
Merckx has condemned doping but he tested positive three times.[4] The first time was in the 1969 Giro d'Italia[6] where he tested positive for the stimulant Reactivan at Savona, after leading the race through 16 stages. He was expelled from the Giro...
...Merckx was also found positive after winning the Giro di Lombardia in 1973.[6] He had taken Mucantil (Iodinated glycerol)...
...Then he was caught after taking Stimul (pemoline) in the 1977 Flèche Wallonne. Merckx said:
"That, I can't deny. I was positive along with around 15 others. I was wrong to trust a doctor."[6]
In 1974, a Belgian biochemist, Professor Michel Debackere, perfected a test for a group of piperidine stimulant drugs (Lidepran, Meratran, and Ritalin) which were used by pro cyclists. Since they were now detectable, this group of drugs fell out of favor within the pro peloton, and some riders instead used pemoline, another amphetamine-like drug. Then in 1977, Debackere once again developed a new drug test, which could detect pemoline. This test caught three of the biggest names in Belgium: Merckx, Freddy Maertens and Michel Pollentier...
In the 1990s, he became a friend of Lance Armstrong, and supported him when Armstrong was accused of drug use, stating he rather "believed what Lance told him than what appeared in newspapers".
|
|
Binks
climber
Uranus
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 06:13pm PT
|
Lance still won those tours. If not, then nobody won them.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
|
Lance sounds like a bastard...? But i am witholding judgement just in case i get invited to his ranch...RJ
|
|
stilltrying
Trad climber
washington indiana
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2012 - 08:38pm PT
|
Cheryl Crow spoke highly of Lance today. Class act that Lady. Nice to see/hear someone be respectful of an ex lover for a change. She also mentioned how hard he worked for his foundation and he has raised $500 Million for Cancer. No person is one thing or another, we are all some good and some bad. The ones that think they are not are the ones with a problem.Interesting how the media swoons over Big George and gave him such a honorable send off. Guess Lance's chief collaborator in all his TDF titles did not notice anything or was not bothered by any questionable activities until the FEDS show up. They just like George's personality more I guess. The idea that the U.S. Goverment should be involved in sports issues is lunacy. Give me my taxes back so I can use it for something worthwhile.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!