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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 30, 2012 - 11:15pm PT
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Wade Icey -- He?
Yes "He"!
That is the way Jesus Christ referred to Him, God the Father, ie, "I and the Father are one." etc.,!!
What is your point?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 11:35pm PT
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Cosmic...I'm going to put an aluminum pie tin in my knickers and laugh my ass off while you get your whipping from the big guy...Take that...! RJ
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 30, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
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Wade Icey -- He was a man?
You already know the answers to these questions, you, like RW, have ulterior motives for approaching this thread. You just can't resist that spirit (call it what you like) within you (your heart/mind/flesh, whatever) to come to this thread and serve the "anti" aspect of your nature.
Nothing new.
But yes, He came as man, was fully man & fully God at the same time. He emptied Himself of His God nature & lived a sinless life as a man = the perfect sacrifice for sin.
edit: odd how man has/is pulled towards slamming Christianity/Christ, has been for 2K years. I notice that ya haven't done likewise to any other thread that surficed lately in the "I like..." category. But, no worries, we been warned by the man Himself, it is expected. A form of persecution & He promised we will be rewarded for enduring it!
So ... Thank You!!
btw, just noticed that ya pulled/deleted that question! i am not sure why ya asked (cud'a been a sincere inquiry) so, wudevah!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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Jody..I agree with what say about extra marital sex but when your goat falls in the well it helps to have experience in love and sex so that you can stoke your mate when you finally do get married...it was just my turn to speak for the big guy and he approves this message....RJ
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 31, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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...or will a Vegas thing work?
Wait a minute!
I've heard that "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!"
I think they even made a movie about it...so it must be true!! lol
edit: RJ - "But when your goat falls into a well it helps to have experience in love and sex..."
Didn't I warn you last night about staying away from those beastiality porn sites, dood? lol
@Slayton --JC did descend into hell (Hades) prior to His resurrection. He evidently did so for that purpose. Just a partial answer to your question, but He did cover what you ask! Not all were released, obviously. Prollie secondary to the life they lived, ie. Lazarus & the rich man. Or, King Herod who slaughtered a whole village of children under the age of two (but i guess he died after Christ's birth,since that is why he killed all the children/but you get the picture, eh?)! Maybe some had the chance to repent, i don't know what all happened. I do know that He was just!Besides. JC was the Lord of the OT and however He judged people then,(once again, see Lazarus & the rich man story) He was just.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Aug 31, 2012 - 12:12am PT
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My apologies if this has been asked before but if one can only enter the gates of heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as one's savior, what happened to the souls of all of those who lived and died before?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 31, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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So do you care to give an identifiable stance on the "Jesus is God" doctrine? Is it yea or nay for you?
Yes, Jesus is God and, uniquely, the God-man.
John
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 31, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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Tobia / JElea,
Do you guys know about deification? Familiar with it?
I ask because a lot of Christians don't know about deification.
When Christians, otherwise people in general, don't know about deification, it makes it harder to have a conversation, at least a meaningful one, about the nature of the historical Jesus.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Aug 31, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
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hfcs,
I am familiar with the term and it's use in theology. However; as I stated before I am not interested in debating the existence of Jesus Christ, his mission or his nature. It serves no purpose; for me anyway. My reasoning is given above.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 31, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
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jesus was a stoner
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 31, 2012 - 05:29pm PT
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Tobia,
So that's the paradox. Isn't it? You want to reason through it but you can't. Then, in the absence of reason, one theistic claim ends up just as valid as any other. The theistic claim "Smite the infidel because this is what God wants!" ends up just as valid as the theistic claim "Killing a zygote is murdering a person!" ends up just as valid as the theistic claim "There is no God but God and Muhammad is His messenger," and "Jesus loves you." Where does it stop? In the absence of reason, it doesn't stop, it doesn't stop. It just goes round and round in our politics and family life and elsewhere leaving in its wake a mess. Just a big mess that the irreligious believers - the irreligious believers of science, for instance, or the irreligious believers of reason or the irreligious believers of the good life - have to deal with and experience. Not that much unlike the poop and discarded tissue paper some inconsiderate smartass climbers leave on our climbing routes, eh?
Btw, you first replied to my post, not the other way around.
Also, if you want to believe in a way that's beyond the purview of reason, then of course that's your business. But don't expect others to leave it at that. Others want to participate; they don't want to withdraw, to bail. Culture wars are afoot, much of them have to do with religion and bs beliefs about how the world works, some want to bring reason to the process to try to figure a way through the troubles we all face. It's a shame many a Christian - perhaps yourself, it seems - would despise them for these efforts.
"People should leave it at that."
Not even close.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 31, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
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I must say, though, that luggi and Jody really got the better of Dr. F., Jingy, HFCS and Wade Icey on the issue of reading the Bible and quoting out of context.
 some's got a ultra-low threshold for "got the better of" statements.
and other mindless yammering from a "I have my imaginary friend" type
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Franpsycho (a.k.a. a token of my extreme)
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Aug 31, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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flossing as such was punishable by murdering everyone in the town and selling your daughters to slavery
says so in the Bible where do i go to buy said daughters? is there an auction of something?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 31, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
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Jingy, nice find! Missed that one.
That was JElea comment, it looks like, lol!
What a bullsh!t statement, eh?
Reminds me of this:
Honesty is a lost art. Facts are for losers. The truth is dead. Pick one.
Opening lines to an op-ed in NYT today. Applies equally well to religion as politics, I think.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/opinion/blow-the-gop-fact-vacuum.html
Paraphrasing above op-ed a bit:
Saying incredible things in a credible way is the art; using theology of vapors to sell dreams of smoke is the craft.
.....
Let's not forget, though:
Better to fight it out on the internet than on the physical battlefield. Like bitd. Might be a gamechanger in this regard.
.....
...munched her little muffin...
hahaha!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 31, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
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How old is the earth?
About how many years has our modern human species been on this earth?
How could humans have "heard" of Jesus prior to 2000 years ago? They didn't
What about the humans that were in Yosemite only 10,000 years ago?
They never heard of prophets or Jesus coming in the future
So they didn't have souls. could not be saved, and could not have gone to "heaven"
Nobody got a shot at heaven unless they were born in last 2000 years, right?
Puke
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 31, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
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He's thoroughly steeped up to his carotids in the Abrahamic narrative isn't he? I'd bet he's never visited a theology - other than the "God of Moses" one. 1,000 cultures, 1,000 theologies.
.....
Norton, what's funny queer is that there are a couple of posters on a cousin thread to this one who swear the bulk of modern Christians don't take the bible stories literally. Recall that?
One says literalism is a modern evangelical affair rooted in the beginning of the 20th century or so (one wonders if she has a similiar misconception re: the muslim world and Islam, e.g., in Pakistan); the other calls me a "puerile rube" among other labels for going on an on and on and on about Abrahamic myths that nobody believes in literally anymore, lol. It's a tough row, battered from all sides. ;)
.....
Of course, deification was rampant 2,000 years ago. If we took a time machine back to the iron age, we'd see that the ancient Egyptians deified Ptolemy and Cleopatra; the ancient Romans deified Julius Caesar among others. Of course all this is common knowledge to anyone literate in history and the so-called Ascent of Man. Even in the 20th century, Americans learned that the bulk of Japanese peasants going back centuries believed their emperors were Living Gods. But does any of this lead the modern Christian to wonder about the deification of Jesus? at least as a possibility? No. Go figure. Apparently it is beyond the purview of reason and/or reasonability. What strategy!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 31, 2012 - 10:58pm PT
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Norton, for simplicty, I used "Jesus". Prior to Jesus, salvation was received by faith in God, their Saviour. Jesus was that saviour, but not referred to as "Jesus" in the OT.
so Jody, there was no "salvation" for all those billions of humans who never heard of the word "god" or "savior", correct?
You do fully accept do you not, that "modern" humans existed on this earth for at least the past 200,000 years, and that language (speech) is only perhaps some 50,000 years old?
And that billions of humans lived and died long long before anyone started talking about "god", the word itself can be traced back only some 2500 years.
Are all those people who lived and died without giving a damn to even think of religion or a god idea because they had not been invented yet doomed to never know "salvation"?
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 31, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
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HFCS -- " It just goes round and round ..."
LOL
I've been saying all along,
There's no escape .......
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 31, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
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Jody:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
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